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Post by doug61 on Jun 17, 2021 13:21:14 GMT
Are we all aboard the Italy hype train? Even though they've not played anyone good their shape and movement look great. Mancini has enhanced his CV with how they look and play. Be interesting to see how they progress. Wales all but through to the last 16 too. Magnificent performance. Bale and Ramsey are different class. Switzerland and Turkey on the other hand. What's the point in Switzerland? Always qualify, always do nothing of note. Turkey have been woeful. Got to mention Kieffer Moore too, we tried to sign him 2 years ago but he picked Cardiff over us. He has been magnificent for club and country since.
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Post by doug61 on Jun 17, 2021 13:26:56 GMT
I doubt anyone here disputes England's record How many really care either? Doug's correct Don't believe the media obsession. Your average club supporter doesn't give a monkeys Very much in the "nice to have" category Which seems to be what everyone here is saying too England are a bit shit Fact No arguments Every now and again a decent crop of players come along. Like now. There might be a chance. Probably not. I'm more interested in The Chairboys and whether they can hold onto Gareth Ainsworth Not all England fans are patriotic idiots (no surrender etc) it's just they are the ones who make a spectacle of themselves and who the media highlight. Embarrassing for the majority Hope you bounce back next term but that's a bugger of a division, it usually takes us 5 years each time we go through the trapdoor to get back.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 14:01:36 GMT
I definitely think England are a good team and I appreciate the hype that the media is responsible for.
The rankings at any one time mean nothing if you can't win international tournaments and that's the point is it not?
The English national team simply aren't good enough to win international tournaments just now whereas so called lesser teams with less resources have and/or have got to major finals.
They seem to be stuck in no man's land too when it comes to expectation.
But the media can't help themselves with their patriotic salavating.
Lots of people think they're good enough to win it but up until now they haven't been.
If they win it on merit and not myth I'll certainly congratulate them.
That's only fair.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 17, 2021 14:34:00 GMT
You can't have met many England fans! I mean, look at the reaction on here when even the mere suggestion of England being in the 2nd tier of world football is met with scorn. I mean, this is a team who have won ONE tournament in 55 years and have never reached a final either since then. Sure the media are the worse exponents of it but they only egg on what's already there. I've never seen such a desperate bunch of obsessives actually. Well, You do seem to have a bit of a downer on England so you may be a bit biased? England are certainly in the second tier of "bottle" and being psychologically able to win tournaments but from a purely talent viewpoint and going on FIFA rankings, positions we do reach in competitions then England are pretty consistently in the top 8 of the world. The French are the best at present and after that Italy, Belgium and England are certainly the best sides in Europe as I think you would admit if you were being honest. I can certainly see how someone might conclude your are very anti-England. Not just the football team.
So, yeah, agreed, maybe you are a bit biased?
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 17, 2021 14:38:12 GMT
I'm more interested in The Chairboys and whether they can hold onto Gareth Ainsworth Not all England fans are patriotic idiots (no surrender etc) it's just they are the ones who make a spectacle of themselves and who the media highlight. Embarrassing for the majority Hope you bounce back next term but that's a bugger of a division, it usually takes us 5 years each time we go through the trapdoor to get back. Ainsworth is great. I love him.
I can't help thinking now would be a good time to move onto a bigger club. Sorry Mungo. I hope he doesn't though. He's worked miracles at Wycombe.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 17, 2021 14:41:23 GMT
The rankings at any one time mean nothing if you can't win international tournaments and that's the point is it not? They clearly mean something They are a ranking based on cumulative current performance in all competitive international games The best teams are at the top That doesn't automatically mean that France, Belgium, or even England will win the Euros I often wonder about winning being the only measure of success in football. If it is then it basically means virtually every single club is a failure which is a narrow way of looking at what it means to play for, or support a team Take this tournament. Wales are unlikely to win it but if they get into the last 16 or even the quarter or semis then I am sure most Welsh supporters would view that as success.
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Jun 17, 2021 15:14:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 15:14:08 GMT
So what you're saying is you don't care if England don't win?
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 17, 2021 15:22:43 GMT
So what you're saying is you don't care if England don't win? Me? Pretty much
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Jun 17, 2021 15:23:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 15:23:52 GMT
Well, You do seem to have a bit of a downer on England so you may be a bit biased? England are certainly in the second tier of "bottle" and being psychologically able to win tournaments but from a purely talent viewpoint and going on FIFA rankings, positions we do reach in competitions then England are pretty consistently in the top 8 of the world. The French are the best at present and after that Italy, Belgium and England are certainly the best sides in Europe as I think you would admit if you were being honest. I can certainly see how someone might conclude your are very anti-England. Not just the football team.
So, yeah, agreed, maybe you are a bit biased?
Have you proof of my anti Englishness? Please submit it. I await your answer I'm no more biased against the England team as you are for it. If anything, it's the cheerleaders on here who are biased against the other teams as the actual facts dictate that the English national team has failed miserably in most international footballing competition compared to other countries.
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Jun 17, 2021 15:25:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 15:25:27 GMT
So what you're saying is you don't care if England don't win? Me? Pretty much That's pretty much what I've been saying all along 👍 Good man.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 17, 2021 15:45:56 GMT
I have no intention of trawling through every post you have made looking for "proof". Life's too short
My recollections are that you put the boot into England at regular intervals - and seem to take delight in it
Maybe that is wrong? Something to reflect on perhaps? I doubt you really care either way
If you are sure you are not anti-English then best to leave it there
It wasn't me that brought it up. I was just commenting on other comments
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Post by doug61 on Jun 17, 2021 16:09:21 GMT
I definitely think England are a good team and I appreciate the hype that the media is responsible for. The rankings at any one time mean nothing if you can't win international tournaments and that's the point is it not? The English national team simply aren't good enough to win international tournaments just now whereas so called lesser teams with less resources have and/or have got to major finals. They seem to be stuck in no man's land too when it comes to expectation. But the media can't help themselves with their patriotic salavating. Lots of people think they're good enough to win it but up until now they haven't been. If they win it on merit and not myth I'll certainly congratulate them. That's only fair. I agree rankings are meaningless, but I was responding mainly to your claim that England were "second tier". If I were to "tier" countries I would say Tier 1 are the countries who regularly move beyond the early "league" stage of tournaments and contest the latter stages which would include England, Tier 2 would be clubs who regularly reach the early stages but rarely progress and tier 3 would be teams that never or rarely qualify for tournements. That takes the vagaries of rankings away as teams like the US can be high when they play a lot of easy fixtures at other times.
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Jun 17, 2021 18:22:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 18:22:01 GMT
I have no intention of trawling through every post you have made looking for "proof". Life's too short My recollections are that you put the boot into England at regular intervals - and seem to take delight in it Maybe that is wrong? Something to reflect on perhaps? I doubt you really care either way If you are sure you are not anti-English then best to leave it there It wasn't me that brought it up. I was just commenting on other comments Well,my'anti Englishness' couldn't have been that acute and memorable if you have to trawl through pages to find it. 'Putting the boot' into the English national football team or even the country's political parties doesn't make me anti English at all. It's fair comment. You'll notice that I do the same with Scotland and Ireland. Do I 'delight' in having an opinion?I doubt it. It might seem that way to you because you're probably not used to having your opinions challenged...? Perhaps you could reflect on different narratives yourself every now and again? I think you agreed with the original poster and brought it up again. This is why I'm replying.
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Jun 17, 2021 18:25:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 18:25:56 GMT
I definitely think England are a good team and I appreciate the hype that the media is responsible for. The rankings at any one time mean nothing if you can't win international tournaments and that's the point is it not? The English national team simply aren't good enough to win international tournaments just now whereas so called lesser teams with less resources have and/or have got to major finals. They seem to be stuck in no man's land too when it comes to expectation. But the media can't help themselves with their patriotic salavating. Lots of people think they're good enough to win it but up until now they haven't been. If they win it on merit and not myth I'll certainly congratulate them. That's only fair. I agree rankings are meaningless, but I was responding mainly to your claim that England were "second tier". If I were to "tier" countries I would say Tier 1 are the countries who regularly move beyond the early "league" stage of tournaments and contest the latter stages which would include England, Tier 2 would be clubs who regularly reach the early stages but rarely progress and tier 3 would be teams that never or rarely qualify for tournements. That takes the vagaries of rankings away as teams like the US can be high when they play a lot of easy fixtures at other times. That's true but what makes the criteria to fit into the second tier?And what is it judged upon? Time?Period of Time? Would you say that the Netherlands for example are in the same tier as England when they have won the Euro's in 1988 and been World Cup finalists 3 times(1974,1978, 2010)? All these achievements all done after England played and won their only final in 1966?
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Jun 17, 2021 18:40:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 18:40:42 GMT
Anyway, predictions for tomorrow night's game.
I will go for 3-1 to England with a few near misses thrown in for good measure.
The English team will be too skillful and quick for Clarke's team.
Even the Anglo Scots won't really perform that well under Clarke's charge.
However, if Clarke does something really radical in his game plan they might get something.
Is he capable of motivating his team to play the game of their careers?
I, personally doubt it.
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