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Post by Mungo Jerry on Jun 18, 2021 9:16:38 GMT
That's true but what makes the criteria to fit into the second tier?And what is it judged upon? Time?Period of Time? Would you say that the Netherlands for example are in the same tier as England when they have won the Euro's in 1988 and been World Cup finalists 3 times(1974,1978, 2010)? All these achievements all done after England played and won their only final in 1966? Well, what sorts out the pecking order in each tier would be successes obviously, as for time periods it would be fairly recent as teams get better or worse over time periods and can move between tiers. You can have "golden generations" like the current Belgium side and teams who geographically have much larger/smaller land masses to get talent from. Were Arsenal successful finishing top 4 for twenty years without winning the title? Most people would settle for being there or thereabouts and in with a shot of winning each time just to keep interest going. Your only criteria for success seems to be winning the whole competitions which I would disagree with, cup football is always open to so many outside factors and progress and consistency has to count for something. 100%
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Post by Mungo Jerry on Jun 18, 2021 9:19:37 GMT
As for tonight's game, I fully expect Scotland to raise their game and not wish to concede. England will need to be patient as Scotland will be happy with the draw or looking to score on the counter. My guess would be 2-0 with the second coming at the death when Scotland are desperately chasing a goal, but who knows. Hope it's a good game and may the best team win. Just hope VAR doesn't wreck it. Scotland will have Tierney back
And probably start with Ché Adams
As you say, not conceding will be key for them
Not expecting a classic but, like you say, who knows?
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Deleted
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Euro 2021
Jun 18, 2021 9:39:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 9:39:12 GMT
That's true but what makes the criteria to fit into the second tier?And what is it judged upon? Time?Period of Time? Would you say that the Netherlands for example are in the same tier as England when they have won the Euro's in 1988 and been World Cup finalists 3 times(1974,1978, 2010)? All these achievements all done after England played and won their only final in 1966? Well, what sorts out the pecking order in each tier would be successes obviously, as for time periods it would be fairly recent as teams get better or worse over time periods and can move between tiers. You can have "golden generations" like the current Belgium side and teams who geographically have much larger/smaller land masses to get talent from. Were Arsenal successful finishing top 4 for twenty years without winning the title? Most people would settle for being there or thereabouts and in with a shot of winning each time just to keep interest going. Your only criteria for success seems to be winning the whole competitions which I would disagree with, cup football is always open to so many outside factors and progress and consistency has to count for something. England's main problem is probably the media who regularly champion/demonise individuals and exert too much pressure, but there does seem to be a psychological problem with taking the final hurdle (or winning penalty shootouts) that does need addressing. As for tonight's game, I fully expect Scotland to raise their game and not wish to concede. England will need to be patient as Scotland will be happy with the draw or looking to score on the counter. My guess would be 2-0 with the second coming at the death when Scotland are desperately chasing a goal, but who knows. Hope it's a good game and may the best team win. Just hope VAR doesn't wreck it. Compared to the successful teams in Europe. England have never had a 'golden period'. Their achievement has been erratic compared to say, the Netherlands If success isn't measured on winning then why take part? Arsenal have always been a mediocre team in English football compared to the likes of Manchester Utd, Liverpool etc. Being also rans is what's expected of them. As for the game tonight?I don't think Scotland will come out fighting but it would be good if they did. I don't like Clarkes team selection(s) for a start. If Billy Gilmour is as good as his sycophants in the Scottish press claim he is, he should play from the start. I'd bin VAR. What a horrible concept.
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Post by Mungo Jerry on Jun 18, 2021 9:49:45 GMT
Arsenal have always been a mediocre team in English football compared to the likes of Manchester Utd, Liverpool etc ?
And you claim to be a wise old head ?
Who are the "etc"?
If Arsenal are mediocre where does that leave the Chairboys or most other EFL clubs ?
Gilmour is very good - doubt he'll play tho
VAR just needs to be tweaked. Working well in this tournament so far. Quick decisions and no lines!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 10:38:06 GMT
So you're claiming that Arsenal are the most successful team in England?
They are serial underachievers.
Back to Tik Tok👍
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Post by Mungo Jerry on Jun 18, 2021 10:51:42 GMT
Er. No
You are a ridiculous Boomer
Where did I say "Arsenal are the most successful team in England" ?
I am querying your suggestion they "have always been a mediocre team in English football compared to the likes of Manchester Utd, Liverpool etc"
Who are the etc ? Aston Villa ? Spurs ? Preston North End ? Royal Engineers ?
How many more league titles and FA Cups do they have to win to lose your tag of "serial underachievers" ?
You portray yourself as some kind of wise old expert and me as a know nothing millenial and then you post nonsense on a public forum
Google Herbert Chapman or Invincibles or Arsene Wenger or George Graham
I have no great interest in Arsenal
I've spent my life watching the lower leagues and non league but even I know the basics
See you over on Tik Tok
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Deleted
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Euro 2021
Jun 18, 2021 10:56:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 10:56:53 GMT
Football success is all relative.
Arsenal will never be mentioned in the same breath as Liverpool, Man Utd or even the great Leeds Utd, Forest teams of the past.
You ARE a millennial hipster. It sticks out a mile.👍
Now stop trolling people and contribute something useful👍
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Post by Mungo Jerry on Jun 18, 2021 11:06:59 GMT
Ha ha
Trolling ? That from the king of the trolls
I'm just picking up on some of the nonsense that you have recently posted in this discussion
Better to be a "millenial hipster" (whatever that actually means) than an idiot
Notice you avoided this question...
How many more league titles and FA Cups do Arsenal have to win to lose your tag of "serial underachievers" ?
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Post by Billy Idle on Jun 18, 2021 11:34:32 GMT
Bit of a bromance going on here
Arsenal are, by any yardstick, one of the most successful teams in England. Third behind Man Utd and Liverpool.
Seems to be a growing sense of anticipation for tonight's game
Looking forward to it
May the best team win
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Jun 18, 2021 11:43:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 11:43:15 GMT
Ha ha Trolling ? That from the king of the trolls I'm just picking up on some of the nonsense that you have recently posted in this discussion Better to be a "millenial hipster" (whatever that actually means) than an idiot Notice you avoided this question... How many more league titles and FA Cups do Arsenal have to win to lose your tag of "serial underachievers" ? Look at their recent record in the CL, Europa League, PL. They have lost a whole lot more than they have won. Stop making a fool of yourself by trolling people.👍 This is what happens folks when (a)you've been brought up on a diet of Sky Sports and(b)you're used to losing the debate. Tik Tok beckons.
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Deleted
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Euro 2021
Jun 18, 2021 11:44:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 11:44:49 GMT
Bit of a bromance going on here
Arsenal are, by any yardstick, one of the most successful teams in England. Third behind Man Utd and Liverpool.
Seems to be a growing sense of anticipation for tonight's game
Looking forward to it
May the best team win
Yes, seems to be a lot of interest in the game. I hope the performance of both teams merits it.😎
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Post by Mungo Jerry on Jun 18, 2021 12:28:49 GMT
Arsenal are, by any yardstick, one of the most successful teams in England. Third behind Man Utd and Liverpool.
Billy agrees
Which is nice
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 18, 2021 12:43:53 GMT
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Post by doug61 on Jun 18, 2021 13:14:21 GMT
Well, what sorts out the pecking order in each tier would be successes obviously, as for time periods it would be fairly recent as teams get better or worse over time periods and can move between tiers. You can have "golden generations" like the current Belgium side and teams who geographically have much larger/smaller land masses to get talent from. Were Arsenal successful finishing top 4 for twenty years without winning the title? Most people would settle for being there or thereabouts and in with a shot of winning each time just to keep interest going. Your only criteria for success seems to be winning the whole competitions which I would disagree with, cup football is always open to so many outside factors and progress and consistency has to count for something. England's main problem is probably the media who regularly champion/demonise individuals and exert too much pressure, but there does seem to be a psychological problem with taking the final hurdle (or winning penalty shootouts) that does need addressing. As for tonight's game, I fully expect Scotland to raise their game and not wish to concede. England will need to be patient as Scotland will be happy with the draw or looking to score on the counter. My guess would be 2-0 with the second coming at the death when Scotland are desperately chasing a goal, but who knows. Hope it's a good game and may the best team win. Just hope VAR doesn't wreck it. Compared to the successful teams in Europe. England have never had a 'golden period'. Their achievement has been erratic compared to say, the Netherlands If success isn't measured on winning then why take part? Arsenal have always been a mediocre team in English football compared to the likes of Manchester Utd, Liverpool etc. Being also rans is what's expected of them. As for the game tonight?I don't think Scotland will come out fighting but it would be good if they did. I don't like Clarkes team selection(s) for a start. If Billy Gilmour is as good as his sycophants in the Scottish press claim he is, he should play from the start. I'd bin VAR. What a horrible concept. Not an Arsenal fan, but to describe a team who qualified for the Champion League 20 years on the trot as "also rans" is just silly. I just think your definition of being successful is too narrow. Were Scotland to reach the semi finals say, that would be a huge success for them, yet you would seemingly belittle it as not important as it isn't measured on winning. Winning is always to aimed for but only one side can be successful so success, whether it be at National or League levels is measured on many different things. Agree with VAR, it's been hopeless, Glad my side is in a League that doesn't have it.
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Post by doug61 on Jun 18, 2021 13:17:37 GMT
Football success is all relative. Arsenal will never be mentioned in the same breath as Liverpool, Man Utd or even the great Leeds Utd, Forest teams of the past. You ARE a millennial hipster. It sticks out a mile.👍 Now stop trolling people and contribute something useful👍 Come on, the Leeds remark has to be in jest, surely. 13-3 in League titles for a start to Arsenal.
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