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Post by politician2 on Jan 14, 2022 12:53:36 GMT
These are precisely the points that Pol's assertions gloss over It's one thing to point at stats and say see - black culture = greater criminality Quite another to interrogate the stats and think about the myriad reasons why this is so Policy needs to take a more holistic approach which is precisely what Lammy argued in his report I am not glossing over these things: I am sure that there are a number of factors driving the appalling levels of crime committed by Caribbean youths. However, I believe that their own culture is among those factors – something ignored by commentators like Lammy, whose default position is that if black people do anything wrong, it's white people's fault that it happened. |
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Post by zeopold on Jan 14, 2022 12:53:57 GMT
As I have already pointed out, they would have still been strumming on lyres in the 1980's instead of enjoying pop hits on handy cassette players had it not been for the largesse of BASF. Never mind Zyklon B and all that. We've covered this territory already, Zeo. The Nazis' human experimentation, aside from being monstrous, was so poorly conducted and recorded that it revealed nothing of any scientific value. I'm talking about slave labour, and innovations in sound recording technology. While we're at it, the Sony Walkman was state of the art. Why no statue of General Tojo in Whitehall? It's wokeness got mad, I tell you  |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 14, 2022 12:58:45 GMT
I'm talking about slave labour, and innovations in sound recording technology. While we're at it, the Sony Walkman was state of the art. Why no statue of General Tojo in Whitehall? It's wokeness got mad, I tell you  Those innovations would have occurred anyway; no seismic leap forward in recording technology occurred specifically due to the use of slave labour. Your argument about Zionists and Hitler was interesting and thought-provoking, but this line of discussion is simply a pointless red herring. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 14, 2022 13:05:50 GMT
These are precisely the points that Pol's assertions gloss over It's one thing to point at stats and say see - black culture = greater criminality Quite another to interrogate the stats and think about the myriad reasons why this is so Policy needs to take a more holistic approach which is precisely what Lammy argued in his report I am not glossing over these things: I am sure that there are a number of factors driving the appalling levels of crime committed by Caribbean youths. However, I believe that their own culture is among those factors – something ignored by commentators like Lammy, whose default position is that if black people do anything wrong, it's white people's fault that it happened. Well that's the first time I have seen you state the situation is far more nunanced than just an innate predisposition to criminality Your characterisation of Lammy is simplistic |
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Post by zeopold on Jan 14, 2022 13:06:40 GMT
I'm talking about slave labour, and innovations in sound recording technology. Those innovations would have occurred anyway No doubt. Can you confirm that Africans would not have figured out the wheel without Massa's help? ...and If they did, what would be the cut-off date for this discovery beyond which slavery was no longer justified or worthy of commemoration?  |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 14, 2022 13:07:47 GMT
Your characterisation of Lammy is simplistic It's pretty accurate, nonetheless. As I said before: he's gone from being an extremely promising MP to the reincarnation of Bernie Grant. |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 14, 2022 13:11:00 GMT
Those innovations would have occurred anyway No doubt. Can you confirm that Africans would not have figured out the wheel without Massa's help? ...and If they did, what would be the cut-off date for this discovery beyond which slavery was no longer justified or worthy of commemoration? No, I cannot confirm it as I cannot construct an alternate history. However, since they were at least 5000 years behind the rest of the world in that regard, I can say that the odds of it happening any time soon would be relatively slim. What I can reasonably assert is that even if they did discover the wheel, they'd be unlikely to make the jump from that to intercontinental journeys in a few hundred years, based on the progress of other cultures. Also, please do not put words into my mouth: at no point have I ever said or implied that slavery was justified. Africans should have been left alone to develop at their own pace and certainly should not have been enslaved. |
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Post by zeopold on Jan 14, 2022 13:28:27 GMT
what would be the cut-off date for this discovery beyond which slavery was no longer justified or worthy of commemoration? at no point have I ever said or implied that slavery was justified. ... to the likes of Colston, whose statue is... Sounds like justification to me. YMMV |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 14, 2022 13:31:24 GMT
at no point have I ever said or implied that slavery was justified. ... to the likes of Colston, whose statue is... Sounds like justification to me. YMMV Stating that black people today owe their existence in the technological world to people like Colston does not justify the cruelty people like him perpetrated on innocent Africans back in the day. It is possible for a person's actions to have appalling consequences for one group of people and potentially beneficial consequences for their distant descendants. This really shouldn't be hard to understand. |
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Post by zeopold on Jan 14, 2022 13:40:49 GMT
... to the likes of Colston, whose statue is... Sounds like justification to me. YMMV Stating that black people today owe their existence in the technological world to people like Colston does not justify the cruelty people like him perpetrated on innocent Africans back in the day. It is possible for a person's actions to have appalling consequences for one group of people and potentially beneficial consequences for their distant descendants. This really shouldn't be hard to understand. 'Owe' is a loaded term that implies a debt, and your frequent reference to the wonders of 'technology' imply that it is some kind of gift. Unintended outcomes notwithstanding, people who do appalling things should not be celebrated with monuments. This too, shouldn't be hard to understand. |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 14, 2022 13:50:47 GMT
'Owe' is a loaded term that implies a debt, and your frequent reference to the wonders of 'technology' imply that it is some kind of gift. Not at all. The sentence "Jews owed their miserable existence in the concentration camps to the political extremism that had become mainstream in early 1930s Germany" does not imply that Jews benefited from that extremism – quite the reverse. |
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Post by doug61 on Jan 14, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
These are precisely the points that Pol's assertions gloss over It's one thing to point at stats and say see - black culture = greater criminality Quite another to interrogate the stats and think about the myriad reasons why this is so Policy needs to take a more holistic approach which is precisely what Lammy argued in his report I am not glossing over these things: I am sure that there are a number of factors driving the appalling levels of crime committed by Caribbean youths. However, I believe that their own culture is among those factors – something ignored by commentators like Lammy, whose default position is that if black people do anything wrong, it's white people's fault that it happened. You just had to include the word "appalling" didn't you?  , this all just smells of trolling, now. |
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Post by zeopold on Jan 14, 2022 16:27:30 GMT
'Owe' is a loaded term that implies a debt, and your frequent reference to the wonders of 'technology' imply that it is some kind of gift. miserable existence in the concentration camps Ugh... doesn't sound as cosy as 'existence in the modern technological world'. Either way they shouldn't have to put up with a statue of Himmler. |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 14, 2022 16:37:09 GMT
I am not glossing over these things: I am sure that there are a number of factors driving the appalling levels of crime committed by Caribbean youths. However, I believe that their own culture is among those factors – something ignored by commentators like Lammy, whose default position is that if black people do anything wrong, it's white people's fault that it happened. You just had to include the word "appalling" didn't you?  , this all just smells of trolling, now. accusing me of trolling? I've been on this site and its predecessor for 15 years. You've been on here for 11 months. I hardly think I'd devote 15 years of my life to trolling on a relatively obscure website. Frankly, you ran out of anything constructive to say several posts back. I'd suggest you stop engaging now before you really embarrass yourself. And the truly astonishing thing is that you've actually agreed with me that black culture contributes to high crime rates, without even realising it. Your exact phrase was "I think that there is no doubt a problem with the number of single mother families in black communities which I believe is quite a bit higher than whites". That is part of what I mean by "culture". |
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Post by zeopold on Jan 14, 2022 16:48:09 GMT
Doug has got Poli's goat...  |
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, this all just smells of trolling, now.
, this all just smells of trolling, now.