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Post by politician2 on Mar 1, 2022 12:08:34 GMT
I tend to think he has totally misjudged the world's response to his actions and now backed himself firmly into a corner. It's doubtful Russia could even afford a permanent long term occupational force in Ukraine which is obviously what they will now require. On top of that the Russian economy will effectively collapse under these long term sanctions the like of which have never been seen before and were probably not expected in the all encompassing attack on the Russian banking and financial sectors. The only way out I could see for Putin to not look extremely weak is to negotiate for peace and to get the two areas that Russia has recognised as independent as effective puppet states, and I cannot see Ukraine allowing that given that Putin's long term plan has been to keep nibbling away at ex USSR regions. The positives are that we will likely see increased defensive spending that has been allowed to drop to unacceptable levels for too many years throughout Europe in the knowledge that the US will pick up the bill and given their move under any right wing Government to more and more insularity that can no longer be taken as a "given". Also, If all Europe moves away from reliance on Russian fuel then it can only be a good thing and the 40% of the Russian economy that depends on it will also disappear and make them cut back on insane levels of weapons spending. There also must be people in important positions in the Kremlin and political security areas that now see Putin as potentially dangerous to their long term prosperity, it will be those that get rid of him one way or another, not the Russian people. Excellent assessment, Doug. I don't really have much to add, other than to point out that there's a significant difference between the Soviet Union, which could have sustained this sort of military intervention almost indefinitely, and Russia, which can't. Putin seems to imagine he is President of the former rather than the latter.
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Post by stu77 on Mar 1, 2022 13:24:32 GMT
Just heard them talking about the slaughter of civilians in Ukraine on LBC. A couple of ex generals or something. Saying public opinion will demand a response from NATO.
Seeing as Johnson is desperate to save his job and also to go down in history maybe he will risk a nuclear war to do this. I really hope I'm wrong.
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Post by zeopold on Mar 3, 2022 12:40:27 GMT
Seeing as Johnson is desperate to save his job and also to go down in history maybe he will risk a nuclear war to do this. I really hope I'm wrong. Johnson will do what the Kremlin tells him to do. Truss running her mouth off will prolly get us nuked in the meantime.
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Post by andyloneshark on Mar 3, 2022 14:42:20 GMT
The thing that has been a real extraordinary eye opener to me, has been the reaction of the people of Ukraine to the invasion. Putin seems to have been expecting no real resistance from them, as if he was somehow 'liberating' these people from the 'oppression' of their current government.
What he got instead is ordinary people of all ages enmasse making molotov cocktails to hurl at Russian tanks. This is not the actions of people yearning to be liberated by him. I realise the reasons for the conflict are historically complex... but ultimately, it should surely be the will of the majority of people that live there what kind of country they live in. I wonder... if there had been a general referendum in Ukraine about joining NATO and they had voted 'Yes' maybe that would have invalidated this invasion in the eyes of most Russians? But of course, we don't really know that, due to suppression of free speech there... maybe that is another reason Ukrainian people are fighting so hard to resist?
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Post by doug61 on Mar 3, 2022 14:55:52 GMT
Just heard them talking about the slaughter of civilians in Ukraine on LBC. A couple of ex generals or something. Saying public opinion will demand a response from NATO. Seeing as Johnson is desperate to save his job and also to go down in history maybe he will risk a nuclear war to do this. I really hope I'm wrong. Well, he's happy to ignore attempted genocide in China if it may bugger up his post Brexit trade deal, just depends on what political positioning brings him the most positive response and chance to play a low rent Churchill.
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Post by doug61 on Mar 3, 2022 15:00:10 GMT
The thing that has been a real extraordinary eye opener to me, has been the reaction of the people of Ukraine to the invasion. Putin seems to have been expecting no real resistance from them, as if he was somehow 'liberating' these people from the 'oppression' of their current government. What he got instead is ordinary people of all ages enmasse making molotov cocktails to hurl at Russian tanks. This is not the actions of people yearning to be liberated by him. I realise the reasons for the conflict are historically complex... but ultimately, it should surely be the will of the majority of people that live there what kind of country they live in. I wonder... if there had been a general referendum in Ukraine about joining NATO and they had voted 'Yes' maybe that would have invalidated this invasion in the eyes of most Russians? But of course, we don't really know that, due to suppression of free speech there... maybe that is another reason Ukrainian people are fighting so hard to resist? In the last election, even those of Russian heritage voted 55/45% to be independent. Putin was just following the Hitler playbook of claiming his people were facing genocide so he had to go in. India and Pakistan are getting away with very little criticism I noticed for putting Russian trade deals before Ukrainian lives.
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Post by stu77 on Mar 3, 2022 16:31:07 GMT
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Mar 3, 2022 16:54:49 GMT
Long and protracted is my guess
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Post by stu77 on Mar 3, 2022 17:30:15 GMT
Long and protracted is my guess Mine too. It's the only outcome where he doesn't lose total face.
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Post by stu77 on Mar 3, 2022 17:49:56 GMT
Nazis Nazis Nazis
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Post by stu77 on Mar 3, 2022 18:16:57 GMT
Former foreign secretary and doctor Lord David Owen has accused Russian president Vladimir Putin of taking steroids and said his aggression could be caused by them. Speaking to Times Radio, Owen said that Putin's changing face shape was a sign that the Russian dictator has been taking steroids, which, he says, are known to cause "aggressiveness" in bodybuilders. "Look at his face, see how that has changed – he now has an oval face," said Owen. "People who said, 'oh, it's plastic surgery or Botox,' I don't believe that at all." "He's on either anabolic steroids as a bodybuilder – and he's very proud of his muscles and strips to the waist and everything like that – or he's on corticosteroids. If you're on these drugs, this gives you this face. www.menshealth.com/uk/health/a39257659/russian-president-vladimir-putin-accused-of-taking-steroids/
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Post by zeopold on Mar 5, 2022 21:22:31 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 21:35:53 GMT
Arse-wipe, meat-head motherfuckers - if they had 2 brain cells they'd be dangerous.
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Post by stu77 on Mar 6, 2022 11:30:38 GMT
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Post by personunknown on Mar 6, 2022 16:31:21 GMT
Virtue Signalling Top Five
Straight in at number one, I Stand With Ukraine by the Uninformed Facebook Band Down at two, I'm Fully Jabbed, the Mumsnet Forum Holding at three, Still Wear A Mask, Sage Advisory Committee Take The Knee at four, The Overpaid Footballer Leaving the charts at five, Clap For The NHS, Everbody Else On My Street
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