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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 18, 2020 9:35:05 GMT
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Vera Lynn
Jun 18, 2020 10:06:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 10:06:55 GMT
Not one to diss the dead but I hated all that militaristic bullshit that surrounded her.
And all that nonsense that she helped Britain 'win' the Second World War.
She will only have a legacy to Britain's cheerleaders and the ignorant(most times one and the same).
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 18, 2020 10:18:04 GMT
I'm not a fan of militaristic bullshit either
I don't think you can dismiss her contribution though. *That* song inspired millions and she spent the WW2 years entertaining the troops, performing in hospitals and army camps, and travelling as far as India and Burma
I find the fetishisation of the War embarrassing and unnecessary but I think we can all agree that abandoning appeasement was the right option and so it had to be done
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Vera Lynn
Jun 18, 2020 10:29:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 10:29:09 GMT
Well, let's be honest the British certainly weren't anti fascist. Anti German definitely and all the trappings that went with it.
The seeds of the 2nd War were sown at the end of the 1st one.
As for Vera Lynn, parading around in front of thousands of randy, dirty troops who all wanted to shag her is no epitaph is it?
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Post by politician2 on Jun 18, 2020 12:35:53 GMT
I find the fetishisation of the War embarrassing and unnecessary… I don't. Britain was unquestionably on the side of the angels and for a time genuinely stood alone. Our European friends and neighbours owe us an eternal debt of gratitude for the part we paid in freeing them from Nazi tyranny; we could have declared ourselves neutral like Ireland and stood on the sidelines, leaving them to their fate. I do, however, have an issue with many of the military conflicts we have become involved with since. |
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Vera Lynn
Jun 18, 2020 12:52:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 12:52:43 GMT
Let's be frank. Without the Red Army destroying the vast majority of the Wermacht on the Eastern Front and Hitler stupidity declaring war on the US, the British would have came to an accommodation with Hitler as they both had a lot in common(ie anti communism, fanatical racism, genocide of people who they 'conquered' etc).
Events outside of Britain's control saved Britain, not the RAF,Vera Lynn, St George or even the Famous Five.
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Post by politician2 on Jun 18, 2020 13:24:51 GMT
That is perfectly true: I carefully chose the phrase "for a time [we] genuinely stood alone". I suspect we would indeed have lost had we finished the war alone. However, I also suspect that had we not got involved at all, the Nazis would have completed the conquest of Europe and might still be in control now.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 18, 2020 14:34:52 GMT
That's my reading of the situation too - from March 1930 until June 1941 (when Nazi Germany inexpicably declared war on the Soviets)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 15:06:10 GMT
That is perfectly true: I carefully chose the phrase "for a time [we] genuinely stood alone". I suspect we would indeed have lost had we finished the war alone. However, I also suspect that had we not got involved at all, the Nazis would have completed the conquest of Europe and might still be in control now. I think Himmler's proposal of an accommodated peace between some sections of the British Ruling Class definitely had legs as both were anti Soviet. However, Eisenhower wouldn't entertain any of it and wanted unconditional surrender of the Nazi's as did Zhukov. In fact Roosevelt had more of a good working relationship with Stalin than Churchill did as both knew that the British were too timid to take on the nazi's militarily. The reality is that both the Red Army decisive defeat of the Nazi's at Kursk and the Marshall Plan were the foundations of modern Britain and the ending of the Empire not Vera Lynn or the RAF. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 18, 2020 16:24:19 GMT
The reality is that both the Red Army decisive defeat of the Nazi's at Kursk and the Marshall Plan were the foundations of modern Britain and the ending of the Empire not Vera Lynn or the RAF. Try telling that to the boneheads "defending" statues last weekend |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 16:46:08 GMT
Well, you couldn't really tell them anything.
You couldn't get a fag paper between them and the Tories. That's the irony
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 18, 2020 18:29:23 GMT
Good article here... www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jun/18/well-meet-again-vera-lynn-pop-masterpiece-second-world-warHere's an excerpt... Yet as the generation who fought the war have died, so a romantic view of the conflict has become weaponised in the construction of the myth of a plucky Britain, fighting alone against Nazi foes. Britain in 1940 wasn’t alone at all, with the resources of an empire behind it, but that hardly serves the war-evoking narrative that formed the core of so much discourse around Brexit and today’s culture war. The examples are numerous: Matt Hancock, now the UK’s bumbling health secretary, invoked D-day in a speech to launch his abortive Tory leadership campaign, and on “Brexit day” in January the Daily Mail printed a front page image of Dover’s white cliffs, immortalised in another of Vera Lynn’s wartime hits. In recent weeks, the tediously polarised argument over Churchill’s legacy has become tied up with discussions over monuments to our imperial past.
This jingoism has frequently been deployed as a smokescreen for government ineptitude over coronavirus and Lynn, the “forces sweetheart”, hasn’t been immune. On 28 May, the Sun published a front page with the headline “Ale Meet Again” above a picture of Boris Johnson brandishing a pint. On the same day, it was announced that the official death toll from Covid-19 had reached 37,837 – more than the number of Londoners killed by German action in the entire second world war.
I wonder now, reflecting on Vera Lynn’s life, if she was always entirely comfortable with the song that followed her through to the end of her 103 years. After all, when she appeared on the Morecambe & Wise 1972 Christmas special (and Morecambe got her confused with Gracie Fields), she refused to sing. As comedian Barry Cryer later recalled, Wise said: “Vera doesn’t know we want her to sing. How can we get her to sing?” with Morecambe replying: “Short of starting another war, I’ve no idea.” A comedy sketch, yes, but within it there might lie a kernel of truth. For Lynn, and for Britain, the war was never over. |
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Post by politician2 on Jun 18, 2020 19:35:54 GMT
"Weaponised", indeed. God, I hate those Americanised (see what I did there?) noun-verbs.
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Vera Lynn
Jun 18, 2020 19:41:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 19:41:24 GMT
The reality of 'who' won the Second World War has been revised so much that you'd think it was the British who won the war at Dunkirk!!
The myth of Vera Lynn was and is part of that revisionism(just as the article alludes to)
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Post by smogquixote on Jun 28, 2020 8:30:28 GMT
The reality of 'who' won the Second World War has been revised so much that you'd think it was the British who won the war at Dunkirk!! I always thought it was Vera Lynn. |
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