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Post by doug61 on Jun 16, 2022 12:15:59 GMT
I'm entirely serious – and I'd express that opinion in front of anybody. If you don't believe me, visit one of the banlieues in Paris and see the conditions in which some immigrants live. But bear in mind I'm talking about the way the French authorities treat minorities – I have no idea how the average French person's views on race compare to their British counterparts. As for your complaints about people on here having a little fun at your expense – I honestly think you need to lighten up. It's obvious that the teasing is affectionate, and given that you've said some fairly outrageous and often quite rude things to people (accusing those who identify as left-of-centre and anti-racist of being far-right racists and imperialists is pretty confrontational) I think you've been shown a fair bit of latitude. So have I, as I have opinions on many issues that differ significantly from the consensus here. But that's what I like about this place: it's a broad church where you can have some lively and sometimes slightly heated discussions without things turning nasty or personal. Who's denying that European's don't have a colonial past and can't be racist? Britain, along with the US is the most racist country in the world. Fact. I reckon if you ranted and raved the way you do about race on here on the streets in this area you'd end up in hospital within minutes. No hiding behind a keyboard here. As for being given 'latitude' on here. I ask for nothing and expect nothing. My political arguments are only relevant to people who firstly have a)first hand knowledge of the politics that I discuss or (b)have lived in an environment where they can draw these conclusions. I wouldn't argue for immigration if I didn't live in an immigrant community or the politics of Ireland if I didn't know of the country and it's politics from my own experience. Likewise my experience of the Labour Party as a trade unionist. I've never hid behind a keyboard ever. As for the little joke about Doug and a bag of potato peelings. Why is that seen as a insult when people feel the need to dine out on endless clichés for years on here about me? Not that it bothers me as they're pretty puerile. Moderation should be informed as well as impartial. On here, it's monitored from a position of ignorance. "Britain, along with the US is the most racist country in the world. Fact." People saying that something is a "fact" without being able to back it up is one of my internet bug bears. Post something strongly factual and scientific to back that up or it's just "opinion". Anyone who has travelled to parts of Eastern Europe or even seen football matches played in those places will see teams routinely have to leave the field due to the astonishing levels of racism that are still considered the norm in some of those places. We have nothing like that thank fuck in our society. Are we perfect? Not even close to equal with regards to race or sex, although in 2022 I would say that oppression due to wealth is far more damaging than anything else which is why we need to get the despicable Tories out of office, probably even if it means not being ideologically pure and voting Labour. Do you ever consider that you and "Politician2" are just the two sides of the same coin, both utterly driven by ridiculous levels of ideology that totally blinds you to anything but the most extreme views, eventually you will probable meet around the other side of the circle in the way that communism and Nazi ideology do. |
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Post by zeopold on Jun 16, 2022 12:21:19 GMT
'anywhere else' = the place where you made the money you're dodging tax on No. You have to pay your taxes up to date before you leave. You then become tax resident somewhere else, so all future earnings are taxable there, not wherever you previously lived. Got it… so all those rich folk on the IoM keep their fortunes topped up by selling ice creams to the TT spectators? |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 16, 2022 12:22:01 GMT
I’ve just made this up… MODERATOR ROLE 1. Check all messages once, ideally twice, a day 2. Delete any posts that are racist, sexist, homophobic or likely to offend in some other way, and DM the person to explain what you’ve done and why 3. Remind anyone who is being rude, insulting or intolerant that we want TP to be a welcoming and inclusive forum 4. Ban anyone who, after repeated warnings, continues to do any of the above 5. Delete any spam messages How does that look? Anyone else got any thoughts on the above? Thanks I personally think a Moderator should take more of a back seat. It definitely should be open enough to attract more members. Thanks With that in mind, how would you define the key responsibilities? |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 16, 2022 12:23:02 GMT
I have spent time in Belfast. I used to go there quite a lot. Both through the troubles and afterwards. Thanks for your reply Sadly it doesn't answer the original question Do you have any facts? Or anything you can point to as proof? Or are you just shooting from the hip? Fine if you are, just say so This is quite interesting... World’s Most and Least Racially Tolerant CountriesBased on the research of two Swedish economists, the Washington Post made a map of world’s most and least racially tolerant countries. The newspaper went back to the source, compiled the original data and mapped it out. In the bluer countries, fewer people said they would not want neighbours of a different race; in red countries, more people did.  According to the survey, Anglo and Latin countries are the most tolerant ones. Also, Pakistanis are more racially tolerant than the Germans or the Dutch while France is the least tolerant country in Europe. “If we treat this data as indicative of racial tolerance, then we might conclude that people in the bluer countries are the least likely to express racist attitudes, while the people in red countries are the most likely”, concludes the Washington Post Whole thing here: www.media-diversity.org/worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/Where abouts in Belfast? I've been going to Belfast for over 45 years, usually Ardoyne in the North, Andy Town in the west and the Lower Ormeau Road in the south. Even Ballymacarrat in the east gets a visit occasionally.😀 You seem to think internet links and number crunching is a substitute for listening to people of colour who live in the UK. A cosy white man's view of racism. I work with at least 3 people from South Africa who moved to Castlemilk and the Red Road flats rather than live in London because the racism was so bad. which is pretty desperate by anyone's standards considering they had lived under Apartheid. Thanks again
Belfast...
I used to stay at the Europa with work back when it was the most bombed hotel in the world which was always a bit worrying
Had friends who lived on Ormeau Road near Hatfield Bar (is that the name?? Not been there since the 90s) (it's where I spent many a happy hour - though had to be vouched for because of my accent)
Britain being the most racist country in the world...
Relying on anecdotal evidence is not "facts" - interesting though your anecdote is, talking of which..
I am amazed to hear about your three South African colleagues - whereabouts in London did they live work? I say amazed as London is one of the most multicultural and diverse cities in the world. I'm not saying it's not got its issues but it blows my mind that they encountered such extreme racism that they preferred to leave the city.
Hope Not Hate report that hostility towards migration and multiculturalism is usually most pronounced in places with majority white populations, which may be diversifying for the first time
According to the 2011 census only 45% of Londoners are white British, 12% are white other, 20% are Asian, 16% are black, the rest are Latin Americans, Arabs etc. Compared with, say, Belgrade, where racism is a big problem, white Serbs make up 90% of the population.
So, back to the question, what facts have you got to support your assertion that Britain is one of the two most racist countries in the world, is that it? Your three SA colleagues?
I have provided you with some data to support the idea that Britain is actually relatively tolerant compared with many other places. What have you got?
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Post by politician2 on Jun 16, 2022 12:31:03 GMT
Got it… so all those rich folk on the IoM keep their fortunes topped up by selling ice creams to the TT spectators? They probably have all kinds of business interests. The salient point is that they run those business interests from here, so their income from them is taxable here. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 16, 2022 12:35:06 GMT
Anyone who has travelled to parts of Eastern Europe or even seen football matches played in those places will see teams routinely have to leave the field due to the astonishing levels of racism that are still considered the norm in some of those places Hungary are repeatedly sanctioned for the racism of their supporters Rogue cannot possibly claim that England has seen anything to compare with this type of thing Also happens quite a bit in Italy - and, as Doug reports, in many other parts of Eastern Europe
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Post by zeopold on Jun 16, 2022 12:35:22 GMT
Got it… so all those rich folk on the IoM keep their fortunes topped up by selling ice creams to the TT spectators? The salient point is that they run those business interests from here, so their income from them is taxable here. The salient point is that their business interests are usually dependent on the taxpayer-funded infrastructure in the country they are cheating. |
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Post by politician2 on Jun 16, 2022 12:37:18 GMT
Do you ever consider that you and "Politician2" are just the two sides of the same coin, both utterly driven by ridiculous levels of ideology that totally blinds you to anything but the most extreme views, eventually you will probable meet around the other side of the circle in the way that communism and Nazi ideology do. My views are not Naziistic in any shape or form. I do not consider members of one race to be inherently superior to members of another. Nor do I believe that British citizens should ever be discriminated against because of their ethnicity, because nobody gets to choose their genetics. However, whilst the vast majority of people of all races and creeds are law-abiding, decent and thoroughly agreeable, some races and creeds appear to have more problem members than others. As a result, I believe that had Britain listened to Enoch Powell in the late sixties, it would now have more cohesive communities, safer streets and fewer social problems. |
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Post by politician2 on Jun 16, 2022 12:39:22 GMT
The salient point is that their business interests are usually dependent on the taxpayer-funded infrastructure in the country they are cheating. Except that they don't owe any taxes in the other country, so they cannot be cheating on them. And if they do have business operations there, those operations will be making a significant financial contribution through employees' income tax, employers' and employees' national insurance, VAT and purchases placed with local suppliers. |
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Post by zeopold on Jun 16, 2022 12:41:43 GMT
The salient point is that their business interests are usually dependent on the taxpayer-funded infrastructure in the country they are cheating. if they do have business operations there, those operations will be making a significant financial contribution through employees' income tax, employers' and employees' national insurance, VAT and purchases placed with local suppliers. The tory mindset in a nutshell: Taxes are for the little people. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 12:42:24 GMT
Who's denying that European's don't have a colonial past and can't be racist? Britain, along with the US is the most racist country in the world. Fact. I reckon if you ranted and raved the way you do about race on here on the streets in this area you'd end up in hospital within minutes. No hiding behind a keyboard here. As for being given 'latitude' on here. I ask for nothing and expect nothing. My political arguments are only relevant to people who firstly have a)first hand knowledge of the politics that I discuss or (b)have lived in an environment where they can draw these conclusions. I wouldn't argue for immigration if I didn't live in an immigrant community or the politics of Ireland if I didn't know of the country and it's politics from my own experience. Likewise my experience of the Labour Party as a trade unionist. I've never hid behind a keyboard ever. As for the little joke about Doug and a bag of potato peelings. Why is that seen as a insult when people feel the need to dine out on endless clichés for years on here about me? Not that it bothers me as they're pretty puerile. Moderation should be informed as well as impartial. On here, it's monitored from a position of ignorance. "Britain, along with the US is the most racist country in the world. Fact." People saying that something is a "fact" without being able to back it up is one of my internet bug bears. Post something strongly factual and scientific to back that up or it's just "opinion". Anyone who has travelled to parts of Eastern Europe or even seen football matches played in those places will see teams routinely have to leave the field due to the astonishing levels of racism that are still considered the norm in some of those places. We have nothing like that thank fuck in our society. Are we perfect? Not even close to equal with regards to race or sex, although in 2022 I would say that oppression due to wealth is far more damaging than anything else which is why we need to get the despicable Tories out of office, probably even if it means not being ideologically pure and voting Labour. Do you ever consider that you and "Politician2" are just the two sides of the same coin, both utterly driven by ridiculous levels of ideology that totally blinds you to anything but the most extreme views, eventually you will probable meet around the other side of the circle in the way that communism and Nazi ideology do. I've been to Eastern Europe and of course there's lots of racism and right wing groups. However I don't see Poland invading other countries, killing millions of their citizens, having one of the most right wing governments in contemporary history, massacring innocent civilians in Ireland and then claiming it isn't racist. Well, consider you voted Labour in who took part in the Iraq War, I would say the only extremist on here is you. Also, favouring repatriation of refugees and dispersing them ala Tory policy, it doesn't take a genius to realise who the real right winger is on here. The only difference is that Politician admits it. |
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Post by politician2 on Jun 16, 2022 12:43:11 GMT
if they do have business operations there, those operations will be making a significant financial contribution through employees' income tax, employers' and employees' national insurance, VAT and purchases placed with local suppliers. The tory mindset in a nutshell: Taxes are for the little people. No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that people owe taxes where they are physically resident. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 12:44:05 GMT
I was pretty sure it couldn't be done with any legal basis without the "OK" from Westminster, am I wrong? You are correct. A further referendum requires permission from the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, not the First Minister of Scotland, to have legal status. If a referendum were held without that permission, it could be declared illegal and ignored. But I also think you're correct that another referendum would produce a second vote to remain part of the UK. We shall see. If you're so sure about the second part of your theory, why are you so terrified of letting people in Scotland decide for themselves? |
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Post by politician2 on Jun 16, 2022 12:46:25 GMT
We shall see. If you're so sure about the second part of your theory, why are you so terrified of letting people in Scotland decide for themselves? I'm not. I'd actively prefer they voted to leave. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 13:00:26 GMT
Where abouts in Belfast? I've been going to Belfast for over 45 years, usually Ardoyne in the North, Andy Town in the west and the Lower Ormeau Road in the south. Even Ballymacarrat in the east gets a visit occasionally.😀 You seem to think internet links and number crunching is a substitute for listening to people of colour who live in the UK. A cosy white man's view of racism. I work with at least 3 people from South Africa who moved to Castlemilk and the Red Road flats rather than live in London because the racism was so bad. which is pretty desperate by anyone's standards considering they had lived under Apartheid. Thanks again
Belfast...
I used to stay at the Europa with work back when it was the most bombed hotel in the world which was always a bit worrying
Had friends who lived on Ormeau Road near Hatfield Bar (is that the name?? Not been there since the 90s) (it's where I spent many a happy hour - though had to be vouched for because of my accent)
Britain being the most racist country in the world...
Relying on anecdotal evidence is not "facts" - interesting though your anecdote is, talking of which..
I am amazed to hear about your three South African colleagues - whereabouts in London did they live work? I say amazed as London is one of the most multicultural and diverse cities in the world. I'm not saying it's not got its issues but it blows my mind that they encountered such extreme racism that they preferred to leave the city.
Hope Not Hate report that hostility towards migration and multiculturalism is usually most pronounced in places with majority white populations, which may be diversifying for the first time
According to the 2011 census only 45% of Londoners are white British, 12% are white other, 20% are Asian, 16% are black, the rest are Latin Americans, Arabs etc. Compared with, say, Belgrade, where racism is a big problem, white Serbs make up 90% of the population.
So, back to the question, what facts have you got to support your assertion that Britain is one of the two most racist countries in the world, is that it? Your three SA colleagues?
I have provided you with some data to support the idea that Britain is actually relatively tolerant compared with many other places. What have you got?
That's hardly Belfast but funnily enough I know that pub. The problem with your supposed data is that it's similar to anecdotal evidence insofar it's a relative snapshot of a particular time. However, again the central point is this :why would I disbelieve my 3 colleagues?They are hardly an exception to to the rule. Incidently, two lived in Canning Town and the other in Stepney. So most people you know are anti racist? You can't know many people if they are as most people I encounter are extremely hostile and racist to most 'foreigners'. Like I said, a cosy white man's view of racism. Ask any black person and you'll get the truth. |
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