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Post by politician2 on Jun 16, 2022 13:05:19 GMT
The problem with your supposed data is that it's similar to anecdotal evidence insofar it's a relative snapshot of a particular time. However, again the central point is this :why would I disbelieve my 3 colleagues?They are hardly an exception to to the rule. Incidently, two lived in Canning Town and the other in Stepney. Ask any black person and you'll get the truth. But their evidence is anecdotal too. They don't speak for all black people. As for "asking any black person", I'll happily ask Bim. But I don't think you'll like his answer.
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Post by zeopold on Jun 16, 2022 13:58:13 GMT
The tory mindset in a nutshell: Taxes are for the little people. No, that's not at all what I'm saying. Then I suggest you re-read the quoted comment. You have to be rich enough to move to a tax cheats’ hidey hole in the first place. From that point on, the schools, hospitals, police, defence, roads, etc in the country where you’re making your pile are paid for by ordinary working people, and the money you rake in is for Rolexes, Ferraris and Fabergé eggs. Herein lies the definition of parasitism in its lowest form.
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Post by politician2 on Jun 16, 2022 14:03:40 GMT
No, that's not at all what I'm saying. You have to be rich enough to move to a tax cheats’ hidey hole in the first place. From that point on, the schools, hospitals, police, defence, roads, etc in the country where you’re making your pile are paid for by ordinary working people, and the money you rake in is for Rolexes, Ferraris and Fabergé eggs. Herein lies the definition of parasitism in its lowest form. No, you don't have to be rich to move here. Anybody can move to the Isle of Man if they have British citizenship, but if they want to involve themselves in the island's economic life they would need a work permit. From that point on, they're not using schools, hospitals, police, defence, roads. etc in the country they left, so they don't have to pay for them. You can't be a parasite by not paying for something you don't receive. And if the people doing the moving were high earners whilst in their original country, they will have paid far more into the system than they ever took out, meaning that other people enjoyed a parasitic existence on their money.
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Post by zeopold on Jun 16, 2022 14:22:27 GMT
Herein lies the definition of parasitism in its lowest form. No, you don't have to be rich to move here. Anybody can move to the Isle of Man if they have British citizenship British people (as far as I'm aware) are not queueing to relocate to the IOM for the similar reasons all offshores are of little value to the native population. They have basic infrastructure, expensive real estate and limited opportunities, unless you're looking for a subsistence wage gig serving canapés to rich people who are operating businesses in locations with large-scale (taxpayer-funded) infrastructure.
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Post by politician2 on Jun 16, 2022 15:03:29 GMT
No, you don't have to be rich to move here. Anybody can move to the Isle of Man if they have British citizenship British people (as far as I'm aware) are not queueing to relocate to the IOM for the similar reasons all offshores are of little value to the native population. They have basic infrastructure, expensive real estate and limited opportunities, unless you're looking for a subsistence wage gig serving canapés to rich people who are operating businesses in locations with large-scale (taxpayer-funded) infrastructure.Your first sentence is a non-sequitur. Your second is a sweeping generalisation. I suspect the reason we do not have more immigrants is that living on an island is not to everyone's taste.
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Post by zeopold on Jun 16, 2022 15:46:50 GMT
British people (as far as I'm aware) are not queueing to relocate to the IOM for the similar reasons all offshores are of little value to the native population. I suspect the reason we do not have more immigrants is that living on an island is not to everyone's taste. You should tell that to the daily arrivals on the beaches of Kent.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 16, 2022 15:56:25 GMT
That's hardly Belfast but funnily enough I know that pub. The problem with your supposed data is that it's similar to anecdotal evidence insofar it's a relative snapshot of a particular time. However, again the central point is this :why would I disbelieve my 3 colleagues?They are hardly an exception to to the rule. Incidently, two lived in Canning Town and the other in Stepney. So most people you know are anti racist? You can't know many people if they are as most people I encounter are extremely hostile and racist to most 'foreigners'. Like I said, a cosy white man's view of racism. Ask any black person and you'll get the truth. Most British people from ethnic minorities have most likely experienced some form of racism No one is gonna argue that Britain doesn't have issues to solve BUT we have made massive strides in my lifetime The key question is not whether Britain has racists The key question is, based on your assertion, is Britain one of the two most racist countries in the world? The idea seems laughable to me
Is your answer still yes? If it is, what is your evidence? You may dismiss the various pieces of research I have posted but at least I am attempting to answer that question and provide objective supporting evidence All that evidence suggests that Britain is nowhere near to being the most racist or second most racist country in the world. Probably why it is still a place many refugees seek refuge and safety. Shame we cannot be more welcoming eh? I am sure that is how the vast majority of people here would like us to act. The last thing people fleeing oppression and torture need is the bullshit they get when they finally arrive here. Separate question, how racist is Glasgow and Scotland these days? I know that in as of 11 February 2011, attacks on ethnic minorities in Scotland had contributed to a 20% increase in racist incidents over the past twelve months. Reports say every day in Scotland, seventeen people are abused, threatened or violently attacked because of the colour of their skin, ethnicity or nationality. Statistics showed that just under 5,000 incidents of racism were recorded in 2009/10, a slight decrease from racist incidents recorded in 2008/9 I didn't realise Ormeau Road nr the Hatfield was not classed as Belfast. As I recall it, it's not that far from the centre, but it was a long time ago. Hope to get back there again in the next few years. Been too long. I've got Irish blood and love going back there.
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Post by doug61 on Jun 16, 2022 16:10:50 GMT
I was pretty sure it couldn't be done with any legal basis without the "OK" from Westminster, am I wrong? You are correct. A further referendum requires permission from the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, not the First Minister of Scotland, to have legal status. If a referendum were held without that permission, it could be declared illegal and ignored. But I also think you're correct that another referendum would produce a second vote to remain part of the UK. It would be interesting to see how the financial case would hold up now, presumably it would actually be better for Scotland than it was back then due to the current relevance of North Sea gas. Still don't think there's enough appetite there for the potential risk though.
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Post by doug61 on Jun 16, 2022 16:17:54 GMT
Do you ever consider that you and "Politician2" are just the two sides of the same coin, both utterly driven by ridiculous levels of ideology that totally blinds you to anything but the most extreme views, eventually you will probable meet around the other side of the circle in the way that communism and Nazi ideology do. My views are not Naziistic in any shape or form. I do not consider members of one race to be inherently superior to members of another. Nor do I believe that British citizens should ever be discriminated against because of their ethnicity, because nobody gets to choose their genetics. However, whilst the vast majority of people of all races and creeds are law-abiding, decent and thoroughly agreeable, some races and creeds appear to have more problem members than others. As a result, I believe that had Britain listened to Enoch Powell in the late sixties, it would now have more cohesive communities, safer streets and fewer social problems. I apologise, i didn't mean to imply that you were, just that it is "like" that situation when two opposing sides have extremist views which both of your's are, they tend to meet in some agreement around t'other side. Brexit is an example, it is both a strong left and a strong right position, although for different reasons.
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Post by doug61 on Jun 16, 2022 16:29:52 GMT
"Britain, along with the US is the most racist country in the world. Fact." People saying that something is a "fact" without being able to back it up is one of my internet bug bears. Post something strongly factual and scientific to back that up or it's just "opinion". Anyone who has travelled to parts of Eastern Europe or even seen football matches played in those places will see teams routinely have to leave the field due to the astonishing levels of racism that are still considered the norm in some of those places. We have nothing like that thank fuck in our society. Are we perfect? Not even close to equal with regards to race or sex, although in 2022 I would say that oppression due to wealth is far more damaging than anything else which is why we need to get the despicable Tories out of office, probably even if it means not being ideologically pure and voting Labour. Do you ever consider that you and "Politician2" are just the two sides of the same coin, both utterly driven by ridiculous levels of ideology that totally blinds you to anything but the most extreme views, eventually you will probable meet around the other side of the circle in the way that communism and Nazi ideology do. I've been to Eastern Europe and of course there's lots of racism and right wing groups. However I don't see Poland invading other countries, killing millions of their citizens, having one of the most right wing governments in contemporary history, massacring innocent civilians in Ireland and then claiming it isn't racist. Well, consider you voted Labour in who took part in the Iraq War, I would say the only extremist on here is you. Also, favouring repatriation of refugees and dispersing them ala Tory policy, it doesn't take a genius to realise who the real right winger is on here. The only difference is that Politician admits it. "Well, consider you voted Labour in who took part in the Iraq War" No, I didn't, as I have stated on more than one occasion, the last time I voted Labour was '97. I voted Green in the following one for exactly the reason that Blair had shown himself, once in power as utterly untrustworthy. You seem to have returned to your utterly baseless and unfounded political insults again, as has been said by myself and others, the seemingly most bigoted poster of all on here is your good self with your anti English views. You seem to believe like dear old Boris, that repeating a lie enough times makes it true. I happily admit I don't support completely open borders as it's an unworkable and financially illiterate policy, which is why nowhere in the world does it exist in the way you demand. Expecting both asylum seekers and Governments to respect the rule of law is not an "extreme" position, it is the only way to get a system that actually works and gives equal chance to all, including the weakest women and children who would soon be shoved aside in your open doors rush to the UK. I also am against the Rwanda flights as is everyone bar Politician on here I believe and I am in favour of us taking many more asylum seekers than we currently do, many thousands more in fact, just not an "unlimited number" which you think is the right position no matter how unworkable it is. If that makes me the insulting things you describe, then so be it.
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Post by politician2 on Jun 16, 2022 17:07:14 GMT
It would be interesting to see how the financial case would hold up now, presumably it would actually be better for Scotland than it was back then due to the current relevance of North Sea gas. Still don't think there's enough appetite there for the potential risk though. Scotland is an interesting case study: its population has developed an appetite for left-wing politics as they're receiving all the benefits (high public spending) without having to pick up the bill (due to the Barnett Formula). I suspect if Scotland does go independent and its population has to pick up the bill for the SNP's largesse, its voting will shift significantly to the right. I also predict that the SNP will run an offshore-style economy – their political role models are Ireland and the Isle of Man.
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Post by politician2 on Jun 16, 2022 17:12:02 GMT
My views are not Naziistic in any shape or form. I do not consider members of one race to be inherently superior to members of another. Nor do I believe that British citizens should ever be discriminated against because of their ethnicity, because nobody gets to choose their genetics. However, whilst the vast majority of people of all races and creeds are law-abiding, decent and thoroughly agreeable, some races and creeds appear to have more problem members than others. As a result, I believe that had Britain listened to Enoch Powell in the late sixties, it would now have more cohesive communities, safer streets and fewer social problems. I apologise, i didn't mean to imply that you were, just that it is "like" that situation when two opposing sides have extremist views which both of your's are, they tend to meet in some agreement around t'other side. Brexit is an example, it is both a strong left and a strong right position, although for different reasons. No offence taken. My views are a curious mixture – economically right-wing, socially liberal and anti-multiculturalism. Enoch Powell would be the closest to a major politician who thought the way I do. I've always felt that the biggest turning point in British politics was when Labour lost the 1970 general election to the Conservatives, despite entering the campaign between 12% and 18% ahead in the polls. Had they won, Powell would have replaced Edward Heath as Leader of the Opposition and would almost certainly have become Prime Minister in the mid-seventies. Britain would never have entered the EEC, enabling us to avoid Brexit, mass immigration would have been limited, and the necessary reforms carried out by Thatcher would have been conducted by Powell, who would have taken the trade unions with him by preventing immigrant labour from undercutting their members' wages. Britain today would be a far more isolationist place, with tightly controlled borders and a non-interventionist foreign policy. It would also, I suspect, be a much better country.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 18:17:48 GMT
Anyone who has travelled to parts of Eastern Europe or even seen football matches played in those places will see teams routinely have to leave the field due to the astonishing levels of racism that are still considered the norm in some of those places Hungary are repeatedly sanctioned for the racism of their supporters Rogue cannot possibly claim that England has seen anything to compare with this type of thing Also happens quite a bit in Italy - and, as Doug reports, in many other parts of Eastern Europe
Of course you wouldn't get English racists running amok abroad.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 18:23:45 GMT
Do you ever consider that you and "Politician2" are just the two sides of the same coin, both utterly driven by ridiculous levels of ideology that totally blinds you to anything but the most extreme views, eventually you will probable meet around the other side of the circle in the way that communism and Nazi ideology do. My views are not Naziistic in any shape or form. I do not consider members of one race to be inherently superior to members of another. Nor do I believe that British citizens should ever be discriminated against because of their ethnicity, because nobody gets to choose their genetics. However, whilst the vast majority of people of all races and creeds are law-abiding, decent and thoroughly agreeable, some races and creeds appear to have more problem members than others. As a result, I believe that had Britain listened to Enoch Powell in the late sixties, it would now have more cohesive communities, safer streets and fewer social problems. What the fuck is 'British ethnicity'? Your Powellite fairy tale was and is a white supremacist pipe dream Politician. Your last comment is telling. Presumably white people deliver'safer streets' and 'fewer social problems'. There's a point, when we're you actually on a street full of 'immigrants'?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 18:25:32 GMT
We shall see. If you're so sure about the second part of your theory, why are you so terrified of letting people in Scotland decide for themselves? I'm not. I'd actively prefer they voted to leave. Well, what are you moaning about?
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