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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 17, 2022 13:47:25 GMT
I'm not clear on what you mean by internationalism in this context, so....
What would that look like in the case of (for example) India's fight for independence?
And wouldn't Scotland have to adopt an internationalist mindset post independence?
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Post by zeopold on Jun 17, 2022 14:08:53 GMT
What would that look like in the case of (for example) India's fight for independence? Ideally the international community would have applied sufficient pressure on the British to relinquish control sooner, and managed the subsequent partition process. Much bloodshed would have been avoided. Of course, Brexit adds an internationalist dimension to the Scots' campaign for independence, which is admirable. Nationalism for its own sake, not so much, as it can evolve into imperialism as in Germany and Russia. I doubt we have much to fear from Scotland with regard to imperialism, though. Look at the pig's ear they made of the Darien Scheme  |
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Post by doug61 on Jun 17, 2022 15:09:40 GMT
All nationalism is petty. You think? Indian nationalism whilst under British colonial rule? (See also numerous other similar examples) Very narrow line between Patriotism and the much darker and uglier Nationalism. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 17, 2022 15:59:15 GMT
So, in Scotland's case, it's not petty nationalism? But something altogether more rational, and internationalist?
Yes Doug, it is a very narrow line between Patriotism and the much darker and uglier Nationalism. The whole "proud" to be anything always strikes me as suspect. I'd prefer we defined Patriotism as being "delighted" to be [insert name of country/city/region/team etc].
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Post by zeopold on Jun 17, 2022 16:26:42 GMT
So, in Scotland's case, it's not petty nationalism? But something altogether more rational, and internationalist? A mixed bag, I think. Either way they're nae use tae us. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 17, 2022 16:57:09 GMT
So, in Scotland's case, it's not petty nationalism? But something altogether more rational, and internationalist? A mixed bag, I think. Either way they're nae use tae us. And we're even less use to them (cash aside) - though whether a majority of Scots now agree remains to be seen Meanwhile there's an interesting article in today Times about how Nicola Sturgeon is doing which I'd paraphrase as "not great". I subscribe otherwise it's behind a paywall. You might get the gist if you're a non-subscriber... Nicola Sturgeon eyes Scottish independence, but how’s she doing at the day job?Scotland’s first minister fired the starting gun on a new independence campaign this week — but critics say she’s failing when it comes to running the countrywww.thetimes.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-eyes-scottish-independence-but-hows-she-doing-at-the-day-job-x2hjrpbjj |
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Post by zeopold on Jun 17, 2022 20:24:52 GMT
A mixed bag, I think. Either way they're nae use tae us. And we're even less use to them Time for an amicable parting of the ways. She's a busted flush. Next |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 14:12:51 GMT
You think? Indian nationalism whilst under British colonial rule? (See also numerous other similar examples) Very narrow line between Patriotism and the much darker and uglier Nationalism. Aye, as a British Nationalist you would know👍 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 14:23:57 GMT
Are you denying that most black people don't experience racism everyday? That sounds pretty unlikely to me As I say above, most British people from ethnic minorities have most likely experienced some form of racism - but every day?! No one is gonna argue that Britain doesn't have issues to solve BUT we have made massive strides in my lifetime The key question is not whether Britain has racists The key question is, based on your assertion, is Britain one of the two most racist countries in the world? The idea seems laughable to me Is your answer still yes? If it is, what is your evidence? You may dismiss the various pieces of research I have posted but at least I am attempting to answer that question and provide objective supporting evidence All that evidence suggests that Britain is nowhere near to being the most racist or second most racist country in the world. Probably why it is still a place many refugees seek refuge and safety. Shame we cannot be more welcoming eh? I am sure that is how the vast majority of people here would like us to act. The last thing people fleeing oppression and torture need is the bullshit they get when they finally arrive here. Are you trying to deny that most black people don't experience racism everyday? You obviously don't know many black people. It's everywhere, however 'slight'. Why don't you ask your 'black friends if you have any. The'post colonialism' of the British mentality makes Britain the most racist country in the world outside of the US, when was the last time you saw Iceland supplying arms to anyone? As I said, it's beyond your comprehension. Quite sad really. Right wing liberalism at it's worse. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 18, 2022 15:38:52 GMT
Thanks Rogue All very interesting but not very helpful If you reread my previous post you'll notice that I am acknowledging the racism which undeniably continues to exist in Britain We agree on that My question was about your original assertion, which initiated this latest discussion, that Britain is one of the two most racist countries in the world You seem to be sticking with it... The 'post colonialism' of the British mentality makes Britain the most racist country in the world outside of the US, when was the last time you saw Iceland supplying arms to anyone? As I said, it's beyond your comprehension. Quite sad really. Right wing liberalism at it's worse. BUT just because you say it is so doesn’t mean it is. You originally stated “fact” which suggest you have some data to support it. Do you? If so, let’s be having it You may dismiss the various pieces of research I have posted but at least I am attempting to answer that question and provide objective supporting evidence All the evidence I have found suggests that Britain is nowhere near to being the first or second most racist country in the world The US is a pretty racist country but sitting at number one? Again, what data do you have to support this? A couple of lists of most racist countries here: worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countriesNo sign of the USA or UK |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 16:53:44 GMT
Thanks Rogue All very interesting but not very helpful If you reread my previous post you'll notice that I am acknowledging the racism which undeniably continues to exist in Britain We agree on that My question was about your original assertion, which initiated this latest discussion, that Britain is one of the two most racist countries in the world You seem to be sticking with it... The 'post colonialism' of the British mentality makes Britain the most racist country in the world outside of the US, when was the last time you saw Iceland supplying arms to anyone? As I said, it's beyond your comprehension. Quite sad really. Right wing liberalism at it's worse. BUT just because you say it is so doesn’t mean it is. You originally stated “fact” which suggest you have some data to support it. Do you? If so, let’s be having it You may dismiss the various pieces of research I have posted but at least I am attempting to answer that question and provide objective supporting evidence All the evidence I have found suggests that Britain is nowhere near to being the first of second most racist country in the world The US is a pretty racist country but sitting at number one? Again, what data do you have to support this? A couple of lists of most racist countries here: worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countriesNo sign of the USA or UK You seem to rely on here experience of racism of stupid stats on the Internet. A white man's privilege. Britain's post colonialist racism manifests itself a lot of ways, isn't Brexit just an a modern example of this? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 17:02:20 GMT
Well, you're quite happy to give 'statistics' for other areas to prove your point, why not there? I'm sure a man of your Intelligence with your leisure time can provide some? Also, I'm curious as to know your feelings on the other points I made in that post. I'm quite happy to argue on the basis of statistics that I can find. If you really want me to research crime levels and ethnicity in Possilpark, I'll have a go, but is there really a point? As for the other issues you raised in your earlier post: I never used the phrase "British ethnicity". You did, so it's for you to tell me "what the fuck" it is or is not. As for being on a street full of immigrants, probably the last time I was in London. Douglas is relatively diverse, but I wouldn't say the streets are "full of" minorities. Yes there is a point. Based on your stats. Present your evidence that crime in working class areas where there are more immigrants exists in Possipark? Well, I think even your good self is tripping over your own tongue when it comes to 'Britain' and 'ethnicity' when was Britain ever a country? Your have a miniscule understanding of racism because, like Nigel and Doug you chose to stay in the white man's world👍 |
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Post by zeopold on Jun 18, 2022 17:02:31 GMT
All very interesting but not very helpful stupid stats on the Internet. Prolly a bit more reliable than some random fanatic's dogmatic rant on the internet. YMMV. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 17:07:09 GMT
A fair point Rogue That was nearly 30 years ago and, crucially, is not a feature of any home games Contrast that with what we have seen time and time again in the Puskás Arena from the home fans in the last few years - it's chalk and cheese That would be like blaming Scottish fans now for those morons who tore up Wembley and ran amok many years ago.  So you defend the right wing , sieg heiling soccer thugs who tore up Dublin that day and night? |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 18, 2022 17:20:24 GMT
So no actual “facts”?
Fine
It’s just a seemingly quite biased opinion which you cannot substantiate
Just to be clear, I do not deny racism exists in Britain
But I cannot think of any serious measure that places modern day Britain in even the top ten most racist countries in the world
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