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Post by politician2 on Oct 30, 2020 14:26:57 GMT
So everyone who is a Muslim is genuinely dangerous. How islamophobic a statement is that? That would indeed be a very Islamphobic statement, but that's not what I said. I said that the religion itself is genuinely dangerous – it inspires some of its followers to acts of insane violence in a way that other religions generally don't in the modern world. That does not mean that all, or even most, or even many Muslims are dangerous – that clearly isn't the case or suicide bombings and murders would be daily occurrences.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 15:21:37 GMT
You said that Islam was a 'dangerous religion'
Explain why Islam as a religion is dangerous.
And why is it any more dangerous than say Christianity?
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Post by politician2 on Oct 30, 2020 15:32:53 GMT
That's very easy to explain, Roguey.
How many people have been cold-bloodedly murdered by Islamic extremists in France in the last couple of weeks for displaying cartoons of Mohammed or as a result of the President's justification of the right to do so?
How many people have been cold-bloodedly murdered by Christian extremists in France in the last couple of weeks for displaying cartoons of Jesus?
There's your answer.
For sure, Christianity has been a force for evil for centuries – whether justifying the slave trade, hiding sexual abuse by priests or dehumanising young girls in Magdalene Laundries – but it is not a dangerous or overbearing religion today in the same way as Islam.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Oct 30, 2020 16:32:49 GMT
Does that prove he's pro Palestinian?Or pro zionist? Or does he go for the fudge like Zeo? Can you provide verbal or written evidence that he's one or the other? The fact that you have to ask whether Zionism is immoral or not displays either complete ignorance or you're playing a stupid game. Find out for yourself. As stated. I have no idea whether he's pro or anti Palestine or Israel I have no "written evidence" except what I posted previously (which suggests some sympathy with Palestine) I think Zionism is a bit more nuanced than simply Israel bad, Palestine good We all know how much shit the Jews have had to endure for centuries, so the idea of them wanting their own state is something that we'd probably all support if we were Jewish I was interested in what you think though. I've noticed your response is often "find out for yourself" which is something I always do when I'm interested in a subject On forums like this I am more interested in what an individual thinks and why they hold that opinion (see also the Say Nothing discussion, and many others)
For whatever reason you seem very reluctant to engage in these discussions beyond making declamatory statements and then appearing reluctant to continue the conversation
All a bit frustrating if I'm honest, but there we are
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 17:09:56 GMT
That's very easy to explain, Roguey. How many people have been cold-bloodedly murdered by Islamic extremists in France in the last couple of weeks for displaying cartoons of Mohammed or as a result of the President's justification of the right to do so? How many people have been cold-bloodedly murdered by Christian extremists in France in the last couple of weeks for displaying cartoons of Jesus? There's your answer. For sure, Christianity has been a force for evil for centuries – whether justifying the slave trade, hiding sexual abuse by priests or dehumanising young girls in Magdalene Laundries – but it is not a dangerous or overbearing religion today in the same way as Islam. So it's the religion that encourages people to do these rather than an individual's interpretation? What about the Christian militias fighting in Beirut in the 80's and in Yugoslavia in the 90's? Don't get me started on the Crusades and the Spanish inquisition. You seem to have a selective memory when it comes to religious'terrorism'.
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Post by politician2 on Oct 30, 2020 17:24:05 GMT
It would be more accurate to say that I have a short memory when it comes to religious terrorism, as I'm referring to things that happen today, not what happened in history.
As for Islam encouraging those people to kill – yes, the Koran specifically justifies the murder of infidels. The Old Testament similarly encourages the murder and enslavement of unbelievers, yet we don't have suicide bombings and knife murders being carried out by members of the Church of England.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 17:25:30 GMT
Does that prove he's pro Palestinian?Or pro zionist? Or does he go for the fudge like Zeo? Can you provide verbal or written evidence that he's one or the other? The fact that you have to ask whether Zionism is immoral or not displays either complete ignorance or you're playing a stupid game. Find out for yourself. As stated. I have no idea whether he's pro or anti Palestine or Israel I have no "written evidence" except what I posted previously (which suggests some sympathy with Palestine) I think Zionism is a bit more nuanced than simply Israel bad, Palestine good We all know how much shit the Jews have had to endure for centuries, so the idea of them wanting their own state is something that we'd probably all support if we were Jewish I was interested in what you think though. I've noticed your response is often "find out for yourself" which is something I always do when I'm interested in a subject On forums like this I am more interested in what an individual thinks and why they hold that opinion (see also the Say Nothing discussion, and many others)
For whatever reason you seem very reluctant to engage in these discussions beyond making declamatory statements and then appearing reluctant to continue the conversation
All a bit frustrating if I'm honest, but there we are
Seems to me you have a basic, naive understanding of the world which is why I suggest you educate yourself before debating. Zionism was a political movement before a lot of atrocities committed against Jewish people and in the middle east it was almost an irrelevance. However, surprise, surprise in England it slowly but surely gained enough of a lobby in order to make it a future consideration for the British Ruling class in the maintenance of it's empire in the early 20th century. However, when Israel was created this was no bloodless 'revolution' it was a violent displacement which ethnically cleansed the people who were already living there. If you think ethnic cleansing is a 'nuance'then it just goes to prove that you should start educating yourself as quickly as possible before you start commenting on certain subjects.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 17:27:51 GMT
It would be more accurate to say that I have a short memory when it comes to religious terrorism, as I'm referring to things that happen today, not what happened in history. As for Islam encouraging those people to kill – yes, the Koran specifically justifies the murder of infidels. The Old Testament similarly encourages the murder and enslavement of unbelievers, yet we don't have suicide bombings and knife murders being carried out by members of the Church of England. No, but you have Western governments massacring innocent people in sovereign countries in illegal wars who funnily enough happen to be Muslim. Is that modern enough for you?
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Oct 30, 2020 17:43:48 GMT
Ethnic cleansing is one way of describing what happens but as is so often the case there's the context to consider e.g.
The genocide of European Jewry (six million exterminated by the Nazis) (and which continued after WW2 in some states), the onset of the Cold War, the closing of liberal democratic gates to Jewish refugees, and the ethnic nation-state as the only available avenue for national emancipation
I'm not saying any of that makes it "right" (whatever that means) - just that it's a bit more nuanced than your reading appears to suggest. I say appears as you don't elaborate.
To what extent do you have sympathy with the Jewish plight? What would you have wanted to happen next if you were let's say a German Jew who had survived Auschwitz?
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Post by zeopold on Oct 30, 2020 18:07:56 GMT
It would be more accurate to say that I have a short memory when it comes to religious terrorism Here's hoping it's not too short to remember Srebrenica
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 18:17:33 GMT
Ethnic cleansing is one way of describing what happens but as is so often the case there's the context to consider e.g. The genocide of European Jewry (six million exterminated by the Nazis) (and which continued after WW2 in some states), the onset of the Cold War, the closing of liberal democratic gates to Jewish refugees, and the ethnic nation-state as the only available avenue for national emancipation I'm not saying any of that makes it "right" (whatever that means) - just that it's a bit more nuanced than your reading appears to suggest. I say appears as you don't elaborate. To what extent do you have sympathy with the Jewish plight? What would you have wanted to happen next if you were let's say a German Jew who had survived Auschwitz? 'Nuanced' seems to be your get out clause for any political argument. Nothing justifies the the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Having visited Auschwitz in 2014 I was angered by the activities of the fascists on jewish people as I see the same mindset prevalent in British society. One of the places that was a cold house for Jewish people after World War2 was England. So much so that a group of jewish ex servicemen formed the '43 Group'led by Morris Beckman to fight the anti semitism of the far right and the bigotry of the general public. You should read his book if you can still get a hold of it. Also, try and read 'The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine' by Ilan Pappé, the Israeli historian for a truthful insight into the origins of Zionism and ethnic cleansing. Endorsed by both John Pilger and Noam Chomsky.
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Post by zeopold on Oct 30, 2020 18:18:20 GMT
we don't have suicide bombings and knife murders being carried out by members of the Church of England. yah but the 'Troubles' in the North of Ireland: again not exactly ancient history
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 18:55:12 GMT
Poor old Jeremy. Tried to go against the Zionists, and got labeled and predictably dismissed as "anti-Semitic". Any criticism of Israel (Rothschild-Land) gets the same treatment from the Zionists and their backers in the UK and US, plus the Anti Defamation League (Mossad-lite). Everyone dances to the tune of the banking dynasty that holds the reins of the Bank of England, US Federal Reserve, controls the price of gold, diamonds, money-markets and usury the world over. etc., etc. I think it's safe to assume that gefilte fish is not on the menu during Passover at Ando's gaff He's bang on.
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Post by politician2 on Oct 30, 2020 19:32:15 GMT
Can't say I'm very keen on any religion (definitely the driver behind the Northern Irish crisis) or on current USA-led foreign policy, but I stand by my assertion that Islam is a concerning religion in Europe today in a way that others are not.
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Post by zeopold on Oct 30, 2020 19:34:48 GMT
Roguepunk (on Ando) 'He's bang on'Talkpunk: Bringing people together <3
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