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Post by personunknown on Mar 11, 2021 10:20:09 GMT
The week after Grundy it was open season on punks. Inflamed by tabloid hysteria, it was as if people were doing some patriotic duty by giving a lone spike top a good kicking. Johnny Oi on here can also testify to what a no go zone Nottingham city centre was at a weekend for the punk brigade.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Mar 11, 2021 10:21:28 GMT
The week after Grundy it was open season on punks. Inflamed by tabloid hysteria, it was as if people were doing some patriotic duty by giving a lone spike top a good kicking. Johnny Oi on here can also testify to what a no go zone Nottingham city centre was at a weekend for the punk brigade. 100% PU Grundy was the turning point and it felt as if everyone was out to get the punks |
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Post by andyloneshark on Mar 11, 2021 10:30:06 GMT
i don't know how 'Youth Culture Violence' can be dated, measured and quantified, really.
Down here in the South West, if anything, it probably got even worse from 1979 onwards... at CRASS and UK SUBS gigs there were stabbings
An Angelic Upstarts gig was a guaranteed warzone... Punk gigs got regularly banned in the early 80s - the violence didn't really tail off here, till around 1983 into 84.
By then the media & fashion circus was well and truly gone, Punk gigs were back to word of mouth, a hardcore on the underground scene and the Morons went to Football matches with their Stanley Knives instead of Punk gigs.
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Post by zeopold on Mar 11, 2021 10:52:55 GMT
Down here in the South West, if anything, it probably got even worse from 1979 onwards Would you agree with my observation that greasers were more of a problem than skins in the west country? That was my experience when visiting, anyway. |
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Post by andyloneshark on Mar 11, 2021 11:08:11 GMT
Well... i'd guess that Skinheads were certainly higher profile around here, into 1979... yes. Which is why i never went to any Two Tone gigs.
I regret that now, as i liked some of the music. The Mod Revival was another excuse for Punk bashing... all very tribal.
Greasers? Dunno, to be honest. There were Teddy Boys here for sure.
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Post by zeopold on Mar 11, 2021 11:15:38 GMT
Well... i'd guess that Skinheads were certainly higher profile around here, into 1979... yes. Which is why i never went to any Two Tone gigs. I regret that now, as i liked some of the music. The Mod Revival was another excuse for Punk bashing... all very tribal. Greasers? Dunno, to be honest. There were Teddy Boys here for sure. I never played or attended any big shows in the west country, mostly village hall type venues. If anything, the roar of motorcycle engines outside was usually the cue for punx and skins to huddle together and prepare for a siege  |
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Post by doug61 on Mar 11, 2021 12:53:56 GMT
True - there was a bit of antipathy as I recall, but there was also some crossover too The skins were the main problem Depends where you were...definitely London/South East, but as you went further west, the greaser issue loomed larger, in my experience. Yeah, never ever had any problems with Teds myself, just the one good kicking and much avoiding of skins back in '77. Whatever happened to tribalism? Can be bad, but has a blandness and need to be accepted replaced it? Everyone seems terrified of being an outsider now, we used to wear it as a badge of honour. As a Millwall fan, I was already used to being hated by everyone so had a good headstart. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Mar 11, 2021 12:58:41 GMT
Whatever happened to tribalism? Can be bad, but has a blandness and need to be accepted replaced it? Everyone seems terrified of being an outsider now, we used to wear it as a badge of honour. As a Millwall fan, I was already used to being hated by everyone so had a good headstart. The tribalism is still there Doug - it's just all online now so hidden from view There's no need to hang around in shopping centres or pubs with like minded souls these days as you can do it from your phone or computer |
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Post by zeopold on Mar 11, 2021 13:00:38 GMT
Depends where you were...definitely London/South East, but as you went further west, the greaser issue loomed larger, in my experience. Whatever happened to tribalism? Again, depends where you are. It could be argued that punk bashing was a first world problem compared to the postcode wars in some modern inner city areas. |
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Post by doug61 on Mar 11, 2021 13:08:10 GMT
Whatever happened to tribalism? Can be bad, but has a blandness and need to be accepted replaced it? Everyone seems terrified of being an outsider now, we used to wear it as a badge of honour. As a Millwall fan, I was already used to being hated by everyone so had a good headstart. The tribalism is still there Doug - it's just all online now so hidden from view There's no need to hang around in shopping centres or pubs with like minded souls these days as you can do it from your phone or computer Yeah, but that's just political tribalism isn't it? |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Mar 11, 2021 13:19:36 GMT
After '77 it was an unsurprising thing to see punks on the street (certainly in London/SE) which is why the kickings eased off, the media had moved on to other targets when they saw that society was in no danger of collapse so people were more calm about it, punks were more a curiosity than a threat and on their way to becoming a toothless tourist postcard with textbook leather jacket/Mohican. May have taken the "far away towns" a while to catch up, but I doubt there was that much tribal kicking going on past 79. Has the year Punk "died"/stopped being punk ever been discussed? Whether it was when the Roxy lost Andy? Or when the Roxy closed for good? Or never. Always a contentious subject. I agree wholeheartedly with that analysis Doug - and it chimes with my own (London-centric) experiences Good point about the year punk died discussion - we've not had an explicit discussion but it is a recurrent theme thoughout many of our musings I've just set it up and here it is... talkpunk.freeforums.net/thread/846/punk-dead-when-die |
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Post by doug61 on Mar 11, 2021 13:22:36 GMT
Roguey was late in joining the movement so he won't know what a war zone it was back in the real days. Going out on the street in your new wave clobber was like carrying a big sign inviting teds, greasers, smoothies, skinheads and every other f***er to kick you senseless. What movement?🤣 I personally never had any problems being a punk. Mind you a lot of people in the London 'movement' were just fashion victims anyway and bolted for cover once they got slapped by a couple of old teds. Anti fascist activity existed outside of punk incidently and the majority of it was carried out by non punks. Do some research. After mid '77 I don't really remember seeing any "fashion victims" as you put it. Majority of people just wore what the fuck they wanted and you were just as likely to see a bank clerk on his way home as a Bromley Contingent type. Certainly no one had the dosh for the Sex Shop nonsense so just imitated the less outrageous look of short spikey crop tatty graffitied shirt etc. Rucking was a huge part of the skinhead movement but punk was a musical one, so of course they weren't up for a fight and just wanted a damn good night out without a trip to the local A&E to remember it by. I think every area and the reaction to youth movements is affected by the poverty of the location, it would be just as dangerous to spill someone's pint accidentally in some places as get up their noses by wearing certain clothing. Violence is usually flared by unemployment/ dissatisfaction and wanting an enemy to feel superior too. After Grundy it was dodgy as any member of "straight" society was likely to have a pop, but once that died down it was only skins that really liked a fight. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 13:27:25 GMT
What movement?🤣 I personally never had any problems being a punk. Mind you a lot of people in the London 'movement' were just fashion victims anyway and bolted for cover once they got slapped by a couple of old teds. Anti fascist activity existed outside of punk incidently and the majority of it was carried out by non punks. Do some research. After mid '77 I don't really remember seeing any "fashion victims" as you put it. Majority of people just wore what the fuck they wanted and you were just as likely to see a bank clerk on his way home as a Bromley Contingent type. Certainly no one had the dosh for the Sex Shop nonsense so just imitated the less outrageous look of short spikey crop tatty graffitied shirt etc. Rucking was a huge part of the skinhead movement but punk was a musical one, so of course they weren't up for a fight and just wanted a damn good night out without a trip to the local A&E to remember it by. I think every area and the reaction to youth movements is affected by the poverty of the location, it would be just as dangerous to spill someone's pint accidentally in some places as get up their noses by wearing certain clothing. Violence is usually flared by unemployment/ dissatisfaction and wanting an enemy to feel superior too. After Grundy it was dodgy as any member of "straight" society was likely to have a pop, but once that died down it was only skins that really liked a fight. Try being a punk in a huge housing scheme in Glasgow in the late 70's/early 80's. |
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Post by zeopold on Mar 11, 2021 13:28:17 GMT
Try to stay polite and courteous though I don't have any of these arguments with anyone else on here. Heaven forbid  |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Mar 11, 2021 13:39:08 GMT
The tribalism is still there Doug - it's just all online now so hidden from view There's no need to hang around in shopping centres or pubs with like minded souls these days as you can do it from your phone or computer Yeah, but that's just political tribalism isn't it? To an extent, but I think it goes beyond that and includes culture, fashion, interests etc. |
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