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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 22, 2022 14:40:22 GMT
Are you being deliberately obtuse Pol?
Or is this an attempt to satire rogue? You're refuting points that I have not argued in favour of
To be clear, I'm not suggesting inequality is not inevitable. Or indeed necessarily a bad thing in and of itself
I am inviting you to think more deeply about the implications of dramatically increasing inequality in the UK, and in particular to think about it in the context of recent troubling political and societal trends
Increasing inequality, a rapidly growing gap between the richest and poorest, reducing social mobility have no positive outcomes for the majority and many negative outcomes for all of us.
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Post by politician2 on Jun 22, 2022 15:04:54 GMT
You can certainly have too much inequality – it is in nobody's interests to create the kind of society you might find in South Africa, where wealthy people are living in gated compounds with armed guards to keep themselves safe from residents of shanty towns. However, the UK is not even close to that situation. The main point I was arguing was that you seemed to be conflating (financial) equality with democracy, when they are two completely different concepts.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 22, 2022 15:16:58 GMT
Not conflating but highlighting a relationship between the two
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Post by doug61 on Jun 22, 2022 16:08:58 GMT
The "not caring" about inequality is what happens with the right wing point of view to the point where it actually damages the whole system of capitalism. The system doesn't limit itself as it should to ensure it's customer base stays healthy, it doesn't control it's greed, it lives in the constant "now" of bigger and bigger share holder pay outs and profits, and if the market won't bear dearer pricing, it obtains them by cost cutting and forcing labour costs down and making people take on greater duties for the same or less money until health and safety are stretched to breaking point.
People like Shapps knows that if he keeps them sweet he will walk into a very well paid job in the industry for his service and contact book, so he will lie and talk about high train driver wages, although the train drivers are not even part of the strike.
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Post by doug61 on Jun 22, 2022 16:14:14 GMT
I am not concerned about people earning what their skills are worth. Absolute poverty is certainly something people should be concerned about; relative poverty is not. The fact that one person earns a million pounds a year and another £10,000 does not make the person on £10,000 better or worse off in real terms. The economy is not some kind of finite pie where one person taking a larger slice means somebody else gets less, though this theory does seem to have taken hold in recent years. "this theory does seem to have taken hold in recent years." Mainly because the Conservative government rolls it out every time they wish to deny a pay rise to Nurses or the public sector. |
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Post by zeopold on Jun 22, 2022 16:43:45 GMT
The economy is not some kind of finite pie where one person taking a larger slice means somebody else gets less Try telling that to working people driven out of rural areas by greedy ****s buying second homes and holiday lets |
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Post by politician2 on Jun 22, 2022 21:52:12 GMT
The system doesn't limit itself as it should to ensure it's customer base stays healthy, it doesn't control it's greed, it lives in the constant "now" of bigger and bigger share holder pay outs and profits, and if the market won't bear dearer pricing, it obtains them by cost cutting and forcing labour costs down and making people take on greater duties for the same or less money until health and safety are stretched to breaking point. That's the reason business needs to be regulated. When I undertake the "political compass test", it always marks me down as a centrist for this reason, even though I'd describe my views as firmly right-wing. One of its criteria is whether respondents believe that companies should be regulated or should be trusted to put consumers' interests first at all times. I'm 100% pro the free market, but that doesn't mean I have any illusions about how many companies would behave if they thought they could get away with it. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 23, 2022 6:56:41 GMT
^ You mean...
How many companies do behave because they can get away with it
Another day of rail strikes today
Labour's response is really disappointing
I get that the Mail, Sun, & Express will hammer Starmer if he supports the strikes but what is the point of Labour if workers being routinely offered no pay increase or an increase well below inflation don't get the support of the political party who exists to represent the ordinary person?
Pathetic
If a Labour leader can't construct a compelling argument that routinely eroding the standard of living of public sector workers over years (whilst the pay of their bosses spirals ever upwards) is wrong, then just go away and let someone else take over
With teachers, nurses and many more waiting in the wings Labour have to be seen to represent these people - the very people we were all clapping a couple of years ago
Given that the Govt had to step in to support the rail industry during the pandemic why not go the way of all other developed countries and recognise that a rail infrastructure needs proper state funding and it's a good thing to support this and make public transport affordable for the average person - plus pay the people who work for it a wage that keeps up with the cost of living
Insted this Govt just wants to turn it into another culture war - all the usual bollocks about hard left unions etc who just want to inconvenience the poor commuter
Both parties have totally lost their way
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Post by zeopold on Jun 23, 2022 8:30:24 GMT
the very people we were all clapping a couple of years ago yah, a clap + 70p will get you a pint of milk |
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Post by politician2 on Jun 23, 2022 9:58:11 GMT
^ You mean... How many companies do behave because they can get away with it No, not really. Business is pretty well regulated these days. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 23, 2022 10:39:00 GMT
Still plenty of scope to wriggle out of responsibilities
I'm sure you could find plenty of examples if you tried - say amongst the tax avoiders, polluters, oligopolies, zero hours contract outfits, health and safety ignorers, money launderers....
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Post by politician2 on Jun 23, 2022 10:47:24 GMT
Still plenty of scope to wriggle out of responsibilities I'm sure you could find plenty of examples if you tried - say amongst the tax avoiders, polluters, oligopolies, zero hours contract outfits, health and safety ignorers, money launderers.... Sure. Every rule has its exceptions. One over here is Manx Gas, which is a private monopoly and abuses that position in every way imaginable. Why our Government doesn't come down on them like a ton of bricks, I have no idea. Nationalising them certainly isn't the answer, as Manx Electricity, which is a government monopoly, has also got up to some very dubious things. |
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Post by zeopold on Jun 23, 2022 11:54:08 GMT
Still plenty of scope to wriggle out of responsibilities Plenty more coming now that the greedy ****s are free of that pesky Brussels 'red tape' |
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Post by doug61 on Jun 23, 2022 15:40:39 GMT
The system doesn't limit itself as it should to ensure it's customer base stays healthy, it doesn't control it's greed, it lives in the constant "now" of bigger and bigger share holder pay outs and profits, and if the market won't bear dearer pricing, it obtains them by cost cutting and forcing labour costs down and making people take on greater duties for the same or less money until health and safety are stretched to breaking point. That's the reason business needs to be regulated. When I undertake the "political compass test", it always marks me down as a centrist for this reason, even though I'd describe my views as firmly right-wing. One of its criteria is whether respondents believe that companies should be regulated or should be trusted to put consumers' interests first at all times. I'm 100% pro the free market, but that doesn't mean I have any illusions about how many companies would behave if they thought they could get away with it. The Genie was out the bottle once the US allowed corporations to be treated as people from a legal standpoint. Like it or not you will see no proper regulation under Conservative Governments, just lip service paid to the idea. The fact that no jail time is ever given to company bosses for malfeasance in the UK also shows that companies have carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they like. This constant wage gap cannot go on, when you get the double whammy of inflation too, I can quite easily see public disorder in the future. Blaming trade unions for doing what they exist to do says just about everything about this hopeless government. It's got to the point where it's almost impossible to see ANY party doing worse than the Conservatives, in hiring sycophants, Boris has a government of possible the lowest talent in living memory, and it doesn't even include Hunt or Grayling. |
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Post by politician2 on Jun 23, 2022 19:10:44 GMT
The fact that no jail time is ever given to company bosses for malfeasance in the UK also shows that companies have carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they like. That isn't strictly true. Prison sentences are handed down for crimes like corporate manslaughter, but the bar is set fairly high. As a case in point, Mark Connolly, managing director of MAC Machinery Services, received a nine-year sentence (reduced to seven on appeal) for his part in the Tebay rail disaster. Connolly was aware that the hydraulic brakes had failed on a flatbed wagon his company was using. Instead of repairing the brakes, he held the wagon in place with wooden chocks and filled the hydraulic pipes with stones to obtain the correct weight in case the wagon was weighed by inspectors. The wagon overran its chocks and accelerated downhill to 40mph, striking and killing four rail workers. Connolly thoroughly deserved the sentence he received. |
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