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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2021 15:38:14 GMT
First you think Blush is an untrustworthy source then you don't. Read between the lines here. I don't like the tone of 'American Hardcore', it's narrative has a right nasty edge to it. However, that doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about. The way I interpret 'I hate Reggae' is that you don't have to like it to be anti racist. There are dimwits who commidify music made by black people and exploit it for their own ends. Just look at the likes if Lydon, Wobble, Clapton etc. Especially the first two who cone from immigrant communities themselves. Can't really comment on the other two but Lydon certainly was a big champion of Reggae from the moment he became known onwards. He certainly helped me get to listen to artists like Dr. Alimantado and others I would otherwise have been unaware of. I think it's always a bit silly to make accusations against those you don't like whilst defending those you do like on these matters. I love Neo Folk although a lot of it is dodgy as fuck. I am capable of separating the art from the artist. What about Gary Glitter and Skrewdriver? Can you separate them? I would still quote the Pistols as to be honest Lydon's role remains a secondary component on light of what he believes now. At the time it wasn't obviously. For me Jones was the real fire and belly of the Pistols. His legacy remains intact. Like Wobble, Lydon will be remembered as a fat fascist.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Oct 2, 2021 19:12:35 GMT
I agree Doug
Reggae was a big part of the punk package
Thanks to Lydon, The Clash and The Ruts, amongst others, I got into it big time
The likes of Misty in Roots, Aswad, Blackbeard, and Steel Pulse were as vital as the early punks
That Capital Radio prog A Punk and his Music inspired me to get into Dr Alimantado, Fred Locks and others - whatever Lydon might have turned into he was an inspiration in those early years
Magical times - I loved the punky reggae party
Taht's what makes it so depressing that a few years later more reductive bands were releasing reactionary tosh like "I Hate Reggae"
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Post by Billy Idle on Oct 3, 2021 9:54:47 GMT
I don 't like reggae - I love it ( one for the 10 cc fans ) .
Funny thing to write a song about .
Bit dodgy if you ask me .
Lydon is a dick now but was not always that way . Agree about his good work in spreading irie riddims to the white youth . Got to be a good thing ?
Wobble ? Racist ? Don't be ridiculous .
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Post by doug61 on Oct 3, 2021 14:58:10 GMT
Can't really comment on the other two but Lydon certainly was a big champion of Reggae from the moment he became known onwards. He certainly helped me get to listen to artists like Dr. Alimantado and others I would otherwise have been unaware of. I think it's always a bit silly to make accusations against those you don't like whilst defending those you do like on these matters. I love Neo Folk although a lot of it is dodgy as fuck. I am capable of separating the art from the artist. What about Gary Glitter and Skrewdriver? Can you separate them? I would still quote the Pistols as to be honest Lydon's role remains a secondary component on light of what he believes now. At the time it wasn't obviously. For me Jones was the real fire and belly of the Pistols. His legacy remains intact. Like Wobble, Lydon will be remembered as a fat fascist. I can separate the first album which is a punk classic imho. same Ian Stuart singing on it, just because he made his views overt on later releases he obviously thought the same back when the first album was made, but sure I can still enjoy listening to the early stuff. The later stuff (must admit I have only heard a few tracks years ago) didn't strike me as very good and of course if you are using Nazi lyrics that becomes part of the "art" whereas I am talking about separating stuff that has no relevance from the "artist". If Gary Glitter was singing about fucking kids then no, I wouldn't be able to separate but his other stuff, sure, there's some great glam, foot stompers that are still the same songs, they don't suddenly become different or worse because we learn something about the "artist". Should we not listen to Led Zep because of Jimmy Page? Bowie because he had Lori Maddox supposedly when she was 14? Shall we decide to "wokenise" all our rock stars and decide if they pass a morality test that allows us to listen to them? If we find a video of Rod Stewart pinching a blondes bum in 1972 do we immediately burn his record like the old ladies with the Beatles or the Pistols? We have to beware lest we become what we most hated in our youth. They hated the Beatles and the Pistols because they didn't pass the religious or moral tests set them, I refuse to judge "legacy" based on anything but the "art" they create.
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Post by doug61 on Oct 3, 2021 15:06:02 GMT
I don 't like reggae - I love it ( one for the 10 cc fans ) . Funny thing to write a song about . Bit dodgy if you ask me . Lydon is a dick now but was not always that way . Agree about his good work in spreading irie riddims to the white youth . Got to be a good thing ? Wobble ? Racist ? Don't be ridiculous . I may be alone but I don't think Lydon is any more or less of a dick now than he's always been. Even as a young punk I found him embarrassing and cringed when he made the music I championed look dumb to my parents and others. He was an attention seeking twat then and still is now, we didn't care back then but now we have grown older we suddenly judge him? And where does the "fascist" thing come from? Is he being called that based purely on what I took to be the same old attention seeking contrarian comments about Trump? Lemmy was a holocaust denier to some degree, He still made some fucking good records with Hawkwind and the early Motorhead stuff. I remember him for that.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Oct 3, 2021 17:07:12 GMT
You may have a point there Doug. I never really listened to what Lydon said when he first appeared. I was bowled over by his attitude and his simmering anger. I was only 14 and easily impressed. I still think he was quite something back then.
Totally agree about separating art and the artist. As you suggest, only a zealot wants or needs to "wokenise" rock stars and decide if they pass a morality test.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 13:10:25 GMT
I don 't like reggae - I love it ( one for the 10 cc fans ) . Funny thing to write a song about . Bit dodgy if you ask me . Lydon is a dick now but was not always that way . Agree about his good work in spreading irie riddims to the white youth . Got to be a good thing ? Wobble ? Racist ? Don't be ridiculous . Have you read his islamophobic statements in his book? How he hates the 'call to prayer' in the east end of London? He doesn't even live there anymore so what's he moaning about.
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Post by Billy Idle on Oct 4, 2021 15:01:35 GMT
Which book ?
Memoirs of a geezer ?
Great read . Read it twice .
No islamaphobic comments in that one .
Has he written another one then ?
Def not a racist .
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Oct 4, 2021 16:20:20 GMT
The call to prayer first thing is very annoying, in the same was as church bells are on a Sunday morning
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 18:00:12 GMT
Which book ? Memoirs of a geezer ? Great read . Read it twice . No islamaphobic comments in that one . Has he written another one then ? Def not a racist . So hating the 'call to prayer'isn't a racist, islamophobic statement? If that isn't an Islamaphobic statement, I don't know what is. Also threatening to vote BNP then bottling it. You should maybe read it a third time!
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Post by Billy Idle on Oct 5, 2021 8:27:44 GMT
You are certainly hardline roguey .
ON that basis most people in the world are racist .
This is some kind of performance art thing you got going, surely ?
Kevin turvey / Alan Parker / Citizen Smith
and now with added Torquemada .
And does making one comment that could maybe be viewed as racist condemn someone to forever being tagged a racist in your mind ?
Being a member of Musicians Against Racism counts for nothing ?
Or having mixed raced children ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2021 9:56:37 GMT
You are certainly hardline roguey . ON that basis most people in the world are racist . This is some kind of performance art thing you got going, surely ? Kevin turvey / Alan Parker / Citizen Smith and now with added Torquemada . And does making one comment that could maybe be viewed as racist condemn someone to forever being tagged a racist in your mind ? Being a member of Musicians Against Racism counts for nothing ? Or having mixed raced children ? So you concede that's a racist statement after claiming it wasn't?🤣 The fact that he has mixed race children is irrelevant as it's clear that he hates muslims and supported the BNP(but bottled it when it came to voting for them) So most people hate the call to prayer? You have evidence of this or are you just speaking for yourself? If being anti racist makes you hardline then I"m hardline, what does that make you👍 There doesn't seem to be many takers for your odd comparisons is there? Seems a bit desperate to me👍
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Post by doug61 on Oct 5, 2021 14:27:17 GMT
The call to prayer first thing is very annoying, in the same was as church bells are on a Sunday morning I think once you have decided to hate someone then you just go in search of anything you can find to back it up, no matter how weak the argument...... It's known as the Clash paradox. (not applicable to westcoast hardcore bands)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2021 15:30:09 GMT
The call to prayer first thing is very annoying, in the same was as church bells are on a Sunday morning I think once you have decided to hate someone then you just go in search of anything you can find to back it up, no matter how weak the argument...... It's known as the Clash paradox. (not applicable to westcoast hardcore bands) Are you for real. Someone who was in a famous punk band who readily admits his hostility to muslims in his own book and you're going on about some nonsense about paranoia. Ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2021 15:31:37 GMT
The call to prayer first thing is very annoying, in the same was as church bells are on a Sunday morning So that's why Wobble hated because it woke him up on a Sunday?🤣 What an apologist you are. Pathetic.
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