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Post by politician2 on Feb 1, 2020 13:53:33 GMT
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 8:17:57 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Feb 2, 2020 8:17:57 GMT
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Brexit
Feb 4, 2020 10:18:51 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Feb 4, 2020 10:18:51 GMT
A message from Brian Eno on Brexit day...To my European friends I just wanted to tell you that, although my country has made the insane, childish and probably suicidal decision to leave Europe, I remain proud to be a European, and proud of the great social experiment that the EU represents. In my mind, I’m still in Europe, and that is where I will stay. For England it’s all over now, and the next generations will judge the results. But I’m writing because I want to tell you what happened to England. There were all the systemic ingredients you probably know about – a corrupt and deceitful press owned by a handful of very rich people; an absurd and carefully nurtured illusion about England’s Imperial past; a media establishment that thrives on attention and clicks and therefore amplifies the political chances of entertainers like Trump and Johnson; a social media ecosystem which drives polarisation rather than compromise, and a series of undistinguished leaders who apparently understood nothing of any of these systemic issues. But there was something else too, and this is the point of this letter: those of us who call ourselves liberals or socialists or democrats weren’t paying attention. Most of us didn’t notice that for working people conditions were becoming bleaker every year. And we didn’t notice that the gutter press was relentlessly directing the blame for those conditions towards the victims – the immigrants, the poor, the social workers, the teachers, the foreigners…and most of all, the EU. We didn’t notice because for us life wasn’t too bad – we all had our iPhones and apps and Amazon accounts and cheap flights to seasides and other ways of wasting our time. Meanwhile there was a revolution going on. We didn’t recognise the revolution because we always thought it was us who were supposed to be the revolutionaries. The revolution happened, and we were sitting on our backsides watching Netflix. I’m pretty confident that your countries too will soon face Exit campaigns – if they haven’t already. The EU is an easy target for any ambitious politician: Want to become a big name in politics? Identify a problem, blame it on the EU, and then ride the Nationalist horse with all the help the media can (and inevitably will) give you. Please, my friends in Europe – don’t make the stupid mistakes we made. Don’t just laugh at people like Trump and Johnson and all the others, because soon they will eat you. If we want a unified Europe to survive, we need to be defending it now. Talking about it. Thinking about it. Making it better. Making it work. Best of luck to you all and hope to see you again in a generation or two. diem25.org/a-message-from-brian-eno-on-brexit-day-and-a-reply/
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Post by politician2 on Feb 4, 2020 12:49:42 GMT
Why do celebrities feel the need to indulge in this sort of pompous virtue-signalling?
Eno is a talented musician, but who cares what he thinks about Brexit or any other political issue?
I particularly liked his reference to an elite having access to "iPhones and apps and Amazon accounts and cheap flights to seasides" – everybody I know, including people on benefits, has those things. Perhaps he's even more out of touch than he realises.
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Brexit
Feb 5, 2020 20:07:25 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Feb 5, 2020 20:07:25 GMT
Why do celebrities feel the need to indulge in this sort of pompous virtue-signalling? Eno is a talented musician, but who cares what he thinks about Brexit or any other political issue? His article is a way of expressing his regret that things had come to this and, more importantly, the warning to other countries not to be complacent... ....this is the point of this letter: those of us who call ourselves liberals or socialists or democrats weren’t paying attention. Most of us didn’t notice that for working people conditions were becoming bleaker every year. And we didn’t notice that the gutter press was relentlessly directing the blame for those conditions towards the victims – the immigrants, the poor, the social workers, the teachers, the foreigners…and most of all, the EU.
We didn’t notice because for us life wasn’t too bad I particularly liked his reference to an elite having access to "iPhones and apps and Amazon accounts and cheap flights to seasides" – everybody I know, including people on benefits, has those things. Perhaps he's even more out of touch than he realises. People in debt? Or on zero hours contracts? Or on benefits? Jetting off abroad? And buying iPhones? If that were true why the massive rise in foodbanks, the 165% increase in homelessness, about a quarter of Britons living in poverty, and about a third of children etc?
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Brexit
Feb 5, 2020 20:56:39 GMT
Post by politician2 on Feb 5, 2020 20:56:39 GMT
His article is a way of expressing his regret that things had come to this and, more importantly, the warning to other countries not to be complacent... Why would other countries require a warning from Brian Eno, of all people? People in debt? Or on zero hours contracts? Or on benefits? Jetting off abroad? And buying iPhones? That's why a lot of people are in debt in the first place.
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Brexit
Feb 6, 2020 7:03:52 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Feb 6, 2020 7:03:52 GMT
Why does anyone require a warning from anyone?
A significant percentage of the population is unable to afford foreign holidays, smart phones and even sufficient food - despite everyone you know having access to all of the above
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Post by zeopold on Feb 8, 2020 21:58:18 GMT
I didn't read Eno's piece as 'virtue signalling', more like a well-observed and heartfelt commentary on current events.
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Brexit
Feb 8, 2020 23:13:38 GMT
Post by politician2 on Feb 8, 2020 23:13:38 GMT
Instead of "well-observed and heartfelt", I'd say it was predictable and clichéd. I knew exactly what he'd say before he said it. Virtually all celebrities appear to hold exactly the same views these days.
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Brexit
Feb 9, 2020 8:43:09 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Feb 9, 2020 8:43:09 GMT
Instead of "well-observed and heartfelt", I'd say it was predictable and clichéd. I knew exactly what he'd say before he said it. Virtually all celebrities appear to hold exactly the same views these days. What would the celebs in your ideal world be saying?
What would they all say that was so unexpected and original?
How would they all be so distinctive and different from each other? I find it hard to imagine such a world but perhaps you can?
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Brexit
Feb 9, 2020 8:52:07 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Feb 9, 2020 8:52:07 GMT
Is Eno a celebrity?
Not a term I'd use to describe him
Wikipedia suggests...an English musician, record producer, visual artist, and theorist best known for his pioneering work in ambient music and contributions to rock, pop, and electronica
His obituary will be a bit more impressive than whoever is on the cover of OK magazine this week (guessing Philip Schofield)
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Brexit
Feb 9, 2020 11:59:58 GMT
Post by politician2 on Feb 9, 2020 11:59:58 GMT
What would they all say that was so unexpected and original? How would they all be so distinctive and different from each other? Looking at the referendum result and the last general election, roughly 50% of the general public support Brexit and 50% oppose it. Almost 100% of celebrities (actors, musicians, etc.) strongly oppose Brexit and appear to support Corbyn and Labour. The only reasonably hip celebrity I can think of who supports Brexit is Morrissey. The only actor who has recently broken ranks is Laurence Fox, who stated on Question Time that he did not believe in the concept of "white privilege" and received a huge backlash from other luvvies as well as the right-on press (( Guardian and Independent). In other words, I don't expect any celebrity necessarily to express views that I agree with, but it's odd that there's very little diversity among their opinions. As such, I stand by my assertion that Eno was virtue-signalling: the real point of his comments was to reassure his celebrity friends that he holds the right views, as expressing the wrong views would lead to ridicule and ostracision, as it did for Fox. (Not that I suspect Eno is being insincere in what he said.) Is Eno a celebrity? Not a term I'd use to describe him Well, he is in the broad sense of the term – inasmuch as his work as a musician has given him a platform to express his views: nobody would be publishing his thoughts on Brexit if he had a day job and tinkered with music as a hobby.
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Brexit
Feb 9, 2020 12:11:02 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Feb 9, 2020 12:11:02 GMT
The referendum result was broadly decided along lines of career achievement and educational attainment. Broadly speaking it was the disenfranchised who were pro Leave and receptive to the Leave message. People who have achieved some degree of success in life are more likely to be pro EU - so no suprise that your average successful individual with a public profile (like Eno) is pro-Europe and pro-EU.
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Brexit
Feb 9, 2020 12:12:59 GMT
Post by politician2 on Feb 9, 2020 12:12:59 GMT
Good point, but I know plenty of very well-educated people who supported Brexit. Aside from Morrissey, I can't think of a single reasonably hip celebrity who will admit to doing so.
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Brexit
Feb 9, 2020 12:37:14 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Feb 9, 2020 12:37:14 GMT
Morrissey has now burnt his bridges with all but the most hardcore of his fan base due to his ongoing and unequivocal support of the far right For Britain party.
That you know "plenty of very well-educated people who supported Brexit" says more about your friends than anything else
The statistical analysis proves this is not what happened at the referendum - and of course which relates to one of Eno's key points about those with comfortable lives not paying attention. Hence his warning to other countries to be more vigilant and learn from our sorry example
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