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Racism
Feb 8, 2023 12:03:57 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2023 12:03:57 GMT
Yes , but fuck all we can do about it now . Might as well complain about what the Romans or the Mongols did . All about the future . Learning from the mistakes of the past . If we don't learn from the 'mistakes' of the past they will continue into the future. They weren't 'mistakes' incidently, it was deliberate state terrorism.
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Post by Billy Idle on Feb 8, 2023 13:12:02 GMT
It doesn 't really matter what you label it retrospectively , point is its what every state in that position was doing at the time and had done since the dawn of humanity .
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Racism
Feb 8, 2023 14:40:21 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2023 14:40:21 GMT
It doesn 't really matter what you label it retrospectively , point is its what every state in that position was doing at the time and had done since the dawn of humanity . I didn't label it retrospectively. That's what it was at the time. The fact that 'other states'do it and have done is in irrelevant, we don't live in 'other states'. Britain has to take responsibility for it's crimes(as do other imperialist states)and stop doing them in the present and the future. Burying your head in the sand is no solution.
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Racism
Feb 8, 2023 14:53:37 GMT
Post by Billy Idle on Feb 8, 2023 14:53:37 GMT
No head burying going on over here , but what the fuck can i do about it ?
I have no power and wasn 't born when it happneed
I 've already said repeatedly that it was bad and wrong - what else do you want ?
I do think things have improved massively and most folk these days do see things differently and most of the ones that don 't will be dead soon .
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Deleted
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Racism
Feb 8, 2023 14:58:41 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2023 14:58:41 GMT
No head burying going on over here , but what the fuck can i do about it ? I have no power and wasn 't born when it happneed I 've already said repeatedly that it was bad and wrong - what else do you want ? I do think things have improved massively and most folk these days do see things differently and most of the ones that don 't will be dead soon . You have more power than you think. What do I want? I think you might be taking this discussion too seriously. Even though the British Empire was dismantled through national liberation movements, the mentality that made it acceptable hasn't. Thats the real problem. Look at the damage done by Brexit.
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Racism
Jul 2, 2023 14:15:39 GMT
Post by politician2 on Jul 2, 2023 14:15:39 GMT
Peculiar none-more- Guardian article that follow's the paper's familiar line (if anything happens anywhere in the world – tax changes, austerity, war in Ukraine, strikes, election results – it will inevitably affect women and ethnic minorities more seriously than white people): www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/02/nhs-long-term-plan-big-gaps-and-short-term-grimThe odd thing is that the article never actually answers the headline, and only refers back to it at all in the final paragraph: "Then there’s the most concerning finding: more strike-affected hospitals saw worse outcomes for black emergency patients, who were more likely to be readmitted in successive weeks. That is compared with white patients in the same hospital. So when hospitals were under pressure, black patients disproportionately lost out through poorer care." Assuming we accept that the underlying statistic is correct – which, given that this is the Guardian, is by no means a certainty – the conclusion ("black people disproportionately lost out through poorer care") does not flow from the premise, nor is it supported by any actual argument. In fact, there are several reasons why the statistic may have arisen: 1 When forced to ration care, hospital staff focus more on white patients than black ones. (This strikes me as very unlikely.) 2 Black people are generally in poorer health than white people, so will inevitably suffer more if care is compromised or rationed. (Whilst anecdotes don't add up to data, the black people I know don't appear to be any sicklier than their white counterparts.) 3 Black people are more impatient and likely to walk out of A&E when waiting times are extended, making it more likely that they will have to return later. (This strikes me as more likely, but also isn't supported by my personal experience – the black people I know are no more or less patient than white people.) Unless anyone can come up with a plausible reason for the statistic that reinforces a conclusion of racism, this strikes me as a particularly poor article founded on barely supportable assumptions.
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Racism
Jul 2, 2023 14:41:17 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jul 2, 2023 14:41:17 GMT
The article is posing the question - Why do black patients suffer more than white ones during doctors’ strikes? - according to the study from Institute for Fiscal Studies
Whatever the reasons it's a troubling finding and the article suggests hospital managers should ensure this unequal history doesn’t continue
Seems fair enough
More generally the findings are that strikes mean no overall fall in headline care outcomes (such as mortality or emergency hospital readmission), partly because emergency care continued to be provided, but lots of elective (ie, non-emergency) procedures were cancelled - a bigger problem today given the huge backlogs for treatment that now exist
This might provide a clue as to differences?
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Racism
Jul 2, 2023 14:42:33 GMT
Post by doug61 on Jul 2, 2023 14:42:33 GMT
Well, the heading was no doubt tacked on by a sub editor who thought of the click bait potential from both wet Guardian readers and also from those that would froth about it in Social media. Reality is that you'd have to compare like for like cases to have any idea WHY these things happen rather than a unified mass statistic. Journalism no longer exists to be informative just to get people angry one way or another. Only thing that is certain is that if we want any NHS left to struggle through the next Parliament we have to get rid of the absolute shower of shite that are in power at the moment.
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Racism
Jul 2, 2023 15:22:50 GMT
Post by politician2 on Jul 2, 2023 15:22:50 GMT
More generally the findings are that strikes mean no overall fall in headline care outcomes (such as mortality or emergency hospital readmission), partly because emergency care continued to be provided, but lots of elective (ie, non-emergency) procedures were cancelled - a bigger problem today given the huge backlogs for treatment that now exist This might provide a clue as to differences? Yes, quite possibly. However, the article states that the statistic specifically refers to "emergency" patients (which I took to mean A&E attendances) later being (re)admitted at a higher rate, presumably because their problem was unresolved or they relapsed.
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Racism
Jul 2, 2023 15:24:08 GMT
Post by politician2 on Jul 2, 2023 15:24:08 GMT
Well, the heading was no doubt tacked on by a sub editor who thought of the click bait potential from both wet Guardian readers and also from those that would froth about it in Social media. Good point. The Guardian needs to be careful about this. The Independent (once a pretty good newspaper) went a lot further down this particular avenue and it hasn't ended well for them.
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Racism
Jul 2, 2023 16:13:10 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jul 2, 2023 16:13:10 GMT
Well, the heading was no doubt tacked on by a sub editor who thought of the click bait potential from both wet Guardian readers and also from those that would froth about it in Social media. Good point. The Guardian needs to be careful about this. The Independent (once a pretty good newspaper) went a lot further down this particular avenue and it hasn't ended well for them. All the print media are in crisis No newspaper turns a profit The right wing press are bankrolled by billionaires for both propaganda opportunities and kudos I pay money to The Times and The Guardian as I value journalists Gawd knows where it will all end up in our post-truth, fake news, AI world
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Racism
Jul 2, 2023 17:16:53 GMT
Post by politician2 on Jul 2, 2023 17:16:53 GMT
Good point. The Guardian needs to be careful about this. The Independent (once a pretty good newspaper) went a lot further down this particular avenue and it hasn't ended well for them. All the print media are in crisis No newspaper turns a profit It's all relative, however. The Guardian may sell a fraction of the copies of the Daily Mail or The Sun, but it still maintains a print edition, which is more than the Independent can manage.
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Post by doug61 on Jul 3, 2023 16:33:19 GMT
Well, the heading was no doubt tacked on by a sub editor who thought of the click bait potential from both wet Guardian readers and also from those that would froth about it in Social media. Good point. The Guardian needs to be careful about this. The Independent (once a pretty good newspaper) went a lot further down this particular avenue and it hasn't ended well for them. They all do it. The success of MailOnline means that "journalists" are given targets for "clicks" on everything used. I stopped reading any paper, I consider they are all failing at their basic level to report or investigate, they are run as cheaply as possible, use agencies rather than have wider spread reporters and are mainly interest in bias confirmation and purposely angering a certain readership. Newspapers have given up, it's as simple as that, rather than rising above the garbage on line, their owners have seen the potential to monetarise culture wars and the like and they win with both sides. That Guardian piece you linked to will be linked to much more by people who are angry about it than those who agree with it. Same when the Mail goes on it's far right rants.
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Racism
Jul 3, 2023 16:38:09 GMT
Post by doug61 on Jul 3, 2023 16:38:09 GMT
Good point. The Guardian needs to be careful about this. The Independent (once a pretty good newspaper) went a lot further down this particular avenue and it hasn't ended well for them. All the print media are in crisis No newspaper turns a profit The right wing press are bankrolled by billionaires for both propaganda opportunities and kudos I pay money to The Times and The Guardian as I value journalists Gawd knows where it will all end up in our post-truth, fake news, AI world "No newspaper turns a profit" Is that an actual fact? I know in the old days they could have given them away free as the advertising easily paid for them, Personally I wouldn't give a penny to Murdoch, and the Guardian's online clickbait factory, like the Mail's easily pays for the print version, even if they are largely loss leaders now.
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Racism
Jul 3, 2023 17:06:45 GMT
Post by politician2 on Jul 3, 2023 17:06:45 GMT
Another odd racism dispute here: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/government-advice-doctors-n-word-b2368391.htmlWhen I read the headline, I first thought that the word "nigger" had been used (though the likelihood would have been very slim). Instead, "negroid" is indeed the correct academic term for that broader racial classification, just as "caucasian" is for the various white-skinned subtypes. Or perhaps I'm turning into the Major from Fawlty Towers and I'm completely out of touch with the correct modern usage of language relating to race.
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