|
|
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 23, 2021 19:54:37 GMT
The sounds of Rat Patrol hints at where Mick went with BAD
Perhaps they'd learned with Sandinsta and so went for something tighter, more focussed and with greater punch
I'm just glad we've got both Rat Patrol and Combat Rock
The jazzy, ambienty vibe of "Death is a Star" and "Inoculated City" - both versions - work for me
The Clash - Inoculated City (Rat Patrol version)
|
|
|
|
Post by doug61 on Jun 24, 2021 11:47:20 GMT
I think it was too near "year zero" for people to realise and be astonished by the breadth of what the Clash were aiming to do. If Bernie had been tossed aside and Mick kept, there would have been no telling what could have occurred.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
The Clash
Jun 24, 2021 12:56:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 12:56:13 GMT
I was reading American Hardcore by Steven Blush and he stated that when the Clash did their 17 day stint in New York after Sandinista the so called 'radical' following of the Clash bombarded the likes of the Bad Brains(playing one of their first major gigs)and Grandmaster Flash with beer cans whilst chanting the N word at both bands.
So much for the Clash radicalising a 'new audience'.
It really was just about being rock star wasn't it?
|
|
|
|
Post by Franklin on Jun 24, 2021 13:29:30 GMT
Conflating those two ideas is a mistake.
If what Blush states is an accurate depiction of what happened then you cannot blame The Clash for elements in the crowd reacting badly to the support bands. There's a lot of ignorant people in the world.
Just as you can't blame The Clash for the abuse suffered by Suicide on their UK tour.
At least The Clash were determined to have those bands on bill and I expect there were some in the crowd who would have loved it and embraced it.
Just about being a rock star? Maybe. But I don't think so. They probably enjoyed elements of that lifestyle. Who wouldn't? But they also did plenty of things that other "rocks stars" did not. It's easy to over romaticize The Clash but equally it's easy to dismiss what made them so special to so many people - probably most people who post here.
You will disagree but then that's quite often the case I notice.
|
|
|
|
Post by Franklin on Jun 24, 2021 13:46:16 GMT
I think it was too near "year zero" for people to realise and be astonished by the breadth of what the Clash were aiming to do. If Bernie had been tossed aside and Mick kept, there would have been no telling what could have occurred. I agree doug61
A tragedy they split when they did
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
The Clash
Jun 24, 2021 13:58:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 13:58:08 GMT
Conflating those two ideas is a mistake. If what Blush states is an accurate depiction of what happened then you cannot blame The Clash for elements in the crowd reacting badly to the support bands. There's a lot of ignorant people in the world. Just as you can't blame The Clash for the abuse suffered by Suicide on their UK tour. At least The Clash were determined to have those bands on bill and I expect there were some in the crowd who would have loved it and embraced it. Just about being a rock star? Maybe. But I don't think so. They probably enjoyed elements of that lifestyle. Who wouldn't? But they also did plenty of things that other "rocks stars" did not. It's easy to over romaticize The Clash but equally it's easy to dismiss what made them so special to so many people - probably most people who post here. You will disagree but then that's quite often the case I notice. Of course you can conflate the two. The Clash just weren't communicating and there is no evidence to suggest that they did anything about the racists. Steven Blush was an eye witness. Were you there? Besides, it wasn't you suffering the abuse as a black person. The radical politics of the Clash is a myth. You should read anything by Red Saunders whereby he states that the Clash only became involved in RAR because it was a perfect career opportunity for them and they didn't want to get left behind. |
|
|
|
Post by doug61 on Jun 24, 2021 14:35:00 GMT
I was reading American Hardcore by Steven Blush and he stated that when the Clash did their 17 day stint in New York after Sandinista the so called 'radical' following of the Clash bombarded the likes of the Bad Brains(playing one of their first major gigs)and Grandmaster Flash with beer cans whilst chanting the N word at both bands. So much for the Clash radicalising a 'new audience'. It really was just about being rock star wasn't it? Never been too fussed if the music was great, posturing and being "true" to the genre is fine, but was too often limiting and led to many bands just stagnating and ending up on the modern "rebellion" cabaret circuit. Stagnation in music was what punk was fighting against from the beginning. |
|
|
|
Post by doug61 on Jun 24, 2021 14:43:49 GMT
Conflating those two ideas is a mistake. If what Blush states is an accurate depiction of what happened then you cannot blame The Clash for elements in the crowd reacting badly to the support bands. There's a lot of ignorant people in the world. Just as you can't blame The Clash for the abuse suffered by Suicide on their UK tour. At least The Clash were determined to have those bands on bill and I expect there were some in the crowd who would have loved it and embraced it. Just about being a rock star? Maybe. But I don't think so. They probably enjoyed elements of that lifestyle. Who wouldn't? But they also did plenty of things that other "rocks stars" did not. It's easy to over romaticize The Clash but equally it's easy to dismiss what made them so special to so many people - probably most people who post here. You will disagree but then that's quite often the case I notice. Of course you can conflate the two. The Clash just weren't communicating and there is no evidence to suggest that they did anything about the racists. Steven Blush was an eye witness. Were you there? Besides, it wasn't you suffering the abuse as a black person. The radical politics of the Clash is a myth. You should read anything by Red Saunders whereby he states that the Clash only became involved in RAR because it was a perfect career opportunity for them and they didn't want to get left behind. "The radical politics of the Clash is a myth." Never thought that "myth" existed and never thought they particularly pushed radical politics. Apart from some RAF faction nonsense in the Rude Boy movie, I can't remember it being on the agenda back then. The "RAR" stuff was hardly radical, most bands joined in to show solidarity between the punk and reggae movements back then and the Clash certainly embraced it more than most and were musically brave enough to embrace the other cultures musically. Only the Ruts did it better IMHO. Most of the bands that stayed "true" to the punk mythos just played white boy rock 'n' roll with safety pins attached. The "myth" is that many of the bands cared much beyond getting a label and some dosh and getting pissed and laid. Of course there were exceptions but they were largely in separate scenes like the anarcho movement which was far more about being politically motivated in causes like animal rights etc. |
|
|
|
Post by Franklin on Jun 24, 2021 14:49:41 GMT
"The radical politics of the Clash is a myth." Never thought that "myth" existed and never thought they particularly pushed radical politics. Apart from some RAF faction nonsense in the Rude Boy movie, I can't remember it being on the agenda back then. The "RAR" stuff was hardly radical, most bands joined in to show solidarity between the punk and reggae movements back then and the Clash certainly embraced it more than most and were musically brave enough to embrace the other cultures musically. Only the Ruts did it better IMHO. Most of the bands that stayed "true" to the punk mythos just played white boy rock 'n' roll with safety pins attached. The "myth" is that many of the bands cared much beyond getting a label and some dosh and getting pissed and laid. Of course there were exceptions but they were largely in separate scenes like the anarcho movement which was far more about being politically motivated in causes like animal rights etc. doug61 telling it like it is Conflating those two ideas is a mistake. If what Blush states is an accurate depiction of what happened then you cannot blame The Clash for elements in the crowd reacting badly to the support bands. There's a lot of ignorant people in the world. Just as you can't blame The Clash for the abuse suffered by Suicide on their UK tour. At least The Clash were determined to have those bands on bill and I expect there were some in the crowd who would have loved it and embraced it. Just about being a rock star? Maybe. But I don't think so. They probably enjoyed elements of that lifestyle. Who wouldn't? But they also did plenty of things that other "rocks stars" did not. It's easy to over romaticize The Clash but equally it's easy to dismiss what made them so special to so many people - probably most people who post here. You will disagree but then that's quite often the case I notice. Of course you can conflate the two. The Clash just weren't communicating and there is no evidence to suggest that they did anything about the racists. Steven Blush was an eye witness. Were you there? Besides, it wasn't you suffering the abuse as a black person. The radical politics of the Clash is a myth. You should read anything by Red Saunders whereby he states that the Clash only became involved in RAR because it was a perfect career opportunity for them and they didn't want to get left behind. You don't like The Clash. We get it. I was reading American Hardcore by Steven Blush and he stated that when the Clash did their 17 day stint in New York after Sandinista the so called 'radical' following of the Clash bombarded the likes of the Bad Brains(playing one of their first major gigs)and Grandmaster Flash with beer cans whilst chanting the N word at both bands. So much for the Clash radicalising a 'new audience'. It really was just about being rock star wasn't it? Never been too fussed if the music was great, posturing and being "true" to the genre is fine, but was too often limiting and led to many bands just stagnating and ending up on the modern "rebellion" cabaret circuit. Stagnation in music was what punk was fighting against from the beginning. Yes. I agree doug61 The more interesting bands realised punk was a creative dead end
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
The Clash
Jun 24, 2021 14:56:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 14:56:56 GMT
I was reading American Hardcore by Steven Blush and he stated that when the Clash did their 17 day stint in New York after Sandinista the so called 'radical' following of the Clash bombarded the likes of the Bad Brains(playing one of their first major gigs)and Grandmaster Flash with beer cans whilst chanting the N word at both bands. So much for the Clash radicalising a 'new audience'. It really was just about being rock star wasn't it? Never been too fussed if the music was great, posturing and being "true" to the genre is fine, but was too often limiting and led to many bands just stagnating and ending up on the modern "rebellion" cabaret circuit. Stagnation in music was what punk was fighting against from the beginning. Absolutely and the biggest posers were the Clash. 'White Riot' has terrible lyrics. It was just white liberalism |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
The Clash
Jun 24, 2021 14:59:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 14:59:42 GMT
Of course you can conflate the two. The Clash just weren't communicating and there is no evidence to suggest that they did anything about the racists. Steven Blush was an eye witness. Were you there? Besides, it wasn't you suffering the abuse as a black person. The radical politics of the Clash is a myth. You should read anything by Red Saunders whereby he states that the Clash only became involved in RAR because it was a perfect career opportunity for them and they didn't want to get left behind. "The radical politics of the Clash is a myth." Never thought that "myth" existed and never thought they particularly pushed radical politics. Apart from some RAF faction nonsense in the Rude Boy movie, I can't remember it being on the agenda back then. The "RAR" stuff was hardly radical, most bands joined in to show solidarity between the punk and reggae movements back then and the Clash certainly embraced it more than most and were musically brave enough to embrace the other cultures musically. Only the Ruts did it better IMHO. Most of the bands that stayed "true" to the punk mythos just played white boy rock 'n' roll with safety pins attached. The "myth" is that many of the bands cared much beyond getting a label and some dosh and getting pissed and laid. Of course there were exceptions but they were largely in separate scenes like the anarcho movement which was far more about being politically motivated in causes like animal rights etc. The Ruts and TRB were truly genuine supporters of RAR and never got the credit for it .(not that they went looking for it). The only people who thought the Clash were really radical were the sycophants in their fan base. They were vying for the same audience as the Police and UB40 in the end. |
|
|
|
Post by Franklin on Jun 24, 2021 15:00:22 GMT
Never been too fussed if the music was great, posturing and being "true" to the genre is fine, but was too often limiting and led to many bands just stagnating and ending up on the modern "rebellion" cabaret circuit. Stagnation in music was what punk was fighting against from the beginning. Absolutely and the biggest losers were the Clash. 'White Riot' has terrible lyrics. It was just white liberalism Okay. You really don't like The Clash. We get it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
The Clash
Jun 24, 2021 15:00:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 15:00:34 GMT
"The radical politics of the Clash is a myth." Never thought that "myth" existed and never thought they particularly pushed radical politics. Apart from some RAF faction nonsense in the Rude Boy movie, I can't remember it being on the agenda back then. The "RAR" stuff was hardly radical, most bands joined in to show solidarity between the punk and reggae movements back then and the Clash certainly embraced it more than most and were musically brave enough to embrace the other cultures musically. Only the Ruts did it better IMHO. Most of the bands that stayed "true" to the punk mythos just played white boy rock 'n' roll with safety pins attached. The "myth" is that many of the bands cared much beyond getting a label and some dosh and getting pissed and laid. Of course there were exceptions but they were largely in separate scenes like the anarcho movement which was far more about being politically motivated in causes like animal rights etc. doug61 telling it like it is Of course you can conflate the two. The Clash just weren't communicating and there is no evidence to suggest that they did anything about the racists. Steven Blush was an eye witness. Were you there? Besides, it wasn't you suffering the abuse as a black person. The radical politics of the Clash is a myth. You should read anything by Red Saunders whereby he states that the Clash only became involved in RAR because it was a perfect career opportunity for them and they didn't want to get left behind. You don't like The Clash. We get it. Never been too fussed if the music was great, posturing and being "true" to the genre is fine, but was too often limiting and led to many bands just stagnating and ending up on the modern "rebellion" cabaret circuit. Stagnation in music was what punk was fighting against from the beginning. Yes. I agree doug61 The more interesting bands realised punk was a creative dead end
I'm glad Doug can articulate your politics for you even if you can't👍 |
|
|
|
Post by zeopold on Jun 24, 2021 15:06:14 GMT
Never been too fussed if the music was great, posturing and being "true" to the genre is fine, but was too often limiting and led to many bands just stagnating and ending up on the modern "rebellion" cabaret circuit. Stagnation in music was what punk was fighting against from the beginning. Absolutely and the biggest losers were the Clash. Thank christ for Abrasive Wheels  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
The Clash
Jun 24, 2021 15:06:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 15:06:31 GMT
Absolutely and the biggest losers were the Clash. 'White Riot' has terrible lyrics. It was just white liberalism Okay. You really don't like The Clash. We get it. A simplistic assertion.👍 |
|
