Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2021 14:58:00 GMT
Crass turned The Clash's posturing up to 11 and slagged them off while they were at it Hearts were in the right place though, even if way too po faced. That was always gonna be a problem letting old hippies on the bus.  Punk owes a lot to the counterculture whether we admit it or not. I mean look at McLaren 😀 |
|
|
|
Post by Django Cherry on Jun 27, 2021 10:16:30 GMT
There's a difference between the counterculture and "hippies"
Doug's right though - Crass turned The Clash's posturing up to 11 and slagged them off while they were at it
It was indeed a double edged sword letting old hippies on the bus - Crass epitomise this for both good and bad
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2021 14:12:19 GMT
There's a difference between the counterculture and "hippies" Doug's right though - Crass turned The Clash's posturing up to 11 and slagged them off while they were at it It was indeed a double edged sword letting old hippies on the bus - Crass epitomise this for both good and bad Actually, it was Zeopold and not Doug who mentioned posturing. In what way were Crass posturing? |
|
|
|
Post by Mangogirrl on Jun 27, 2021 14:45:16 GMT
Yes. Crass may have been musically limited but no doubting their credentials
They mean(t) it maaaaaaaaaan
Them and Throbbing Gristle were probably the two most radical bands in the punkesphere
Both attempted to make a radical statement within the existing hierarchies which they were opposed to
That's not to say The Clash didn't have social and political motivations, just that less defined and of coursee their commitment level was variable and diminished over time
|
|
loz
Full Member
Posts: 116
|
Post by loz on Jun 28, 2021 7:24:13 GMT
^^
Oh wasnt that the case, I went to both days of the first Shepherds bush concerts in 2007? and I have to say they were some of the best gigs I had ever been to I really enjoyed them. But Fxxk me did some people make a fuss.
Anyway about The Clash, Loved the first LP, thought the second was well overproduced and only had a couple of good songs on it, London Calling was a great LP but not punk, CR sounded like the sort of Punk the yanks were after...that was about as far as I went even though I bought the next two LPs I doubt I have ever listened to them all the way through sort of bought them because I felt I should.
|
|
|
|
Post by Quietriotgirrl on Jun 28, 2021 8:33:32 GMT
Clash were consistent and kept on changing
Too fast for many of their followers
Who wants to stay in the punk ghetto when there's a world to explore?
|
|
|
|
Post by Billy Idle on Jun 28, 2021 16:10:28 GMT
And Mick get that progression going with Big Audio Dynamite
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
The Clash
Jun 28, 2021 17:40:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2021 17:40:09 GMT
Clash were consistent and kept on changing Too fast for many of their followers Who wants to stay in the punk ghetto when there's a world to explore? It's all relative but the main reason they changed was that they wanted to become a mainstream rock band. As far as rock bands went they were bloody awful. |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 29, 2021 9:20:59 GMT
Perhaps "rock band" is too narrow a description?
They embraced jazz, rock steady, hip hop, soul, dub etc.
Sandinista, for all its faults, is not an album looking to embrace the mainstream
Even Combat Rock complete with some big tunes still has plenty of experimentation on it too
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
The Clash
Jun 29, 2021 9:48:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 9:48:49 GMT
Perhaps "rock band" is too narrow a description? They embraced jazz, rock steady, hip hop, soul, dub etc. Sandinista, for all its faults, is not an album looking to embrace the mainstream Even Combat Rock complete with some big tunes still has plenty of experimentation on it too Both those albums have to be seen in the context of the time whereby audiences were a bit more open minded towards music compared to today. They were still rubbish though. If supporting the likes of the Who doesn't sound like a mainstream rock band, I don't know what does. |
|
|
|
Post by doug61 on Jun 29, 2021 12:21:51 GMT
Clash were consistent and kept on changing Too fast for many of their followers Who wants to stay in the punk ghetto when there's a world to explore? It's all relative but the main reason they changed was that they wanted to become a mainstream rock band. As far as rock bands went they were bloody awful. Why were they "bloody awful" as a "rock band"? Really don't see it. If you label them as a major-ish rock band then you would be placing them in the same arena as the likes of Muse, Manic Street Preachers, Guns N Roses, Coldplay,Elbow and the like and they piss all over those bands for sheer energy. I truly get that people can feel upset with their direction even after the first album but whatever type of band they were, they certainly weren't bloody awful unless you have an agenda against them. You can dislike a band yet admire them for what they do. |
|
|
|
Post by doug61 on Jun 29, 2021 12:26:31 GMT
There's a difference between the counterculture and "hippies" Doug's right though - Crass turned The Clash's posturing up to 11 and slagged them off while they were at it It was indeed a double edged sword letting old hippies on the bus - Crass epitomise this for both good and bad Wasn't me. But doesn't "posturing" imply that Crass didn't mean it and were pretending? That was hardly the fact, they gave way too much to their fans to the extent of damaging themselves. Too committed if anything. |
|
|
|
Post by doug61 on Jun 29, 2021 12:38:34 GMT
Yes. Crass may have been musically limited but no doubting their credentials They mean(t) it maaaaaaaaaan Them and Throbbing Gristle were probably the two most radical bands in the punkesphere Both attempted to make a radical statement within the existing hierarchies which they were opposed to That's not to say The Clash didn't have social and political motivations, just that less defined and of coursee their commitment level was variable and diminished over time Agree, and although they fitted loosely into the movement, neither were really punk bands, they both went totally beyond it. For all the "DIY" ethos, there was a very conservative side to the punk movement that insisted on the old tropes of guitar, bass and drums and a whole anti-synth mentality as Suicide saw up close. If anything TG were closer to Free Jazz and the alternative art movements than they were to punk and punk wanted an audience whereas TG wanted the audience to leave in disgust (the thing Ian Curtis famously loved about them). Crass were from the squat/radical hippie/folk rock scene that lead onwards to the whole "crusty" and festival scene of others like "Here & Now", punk was just a medium to get various (then) radical beliefs into the mainstream. |
|
|
|
The Clash
Jun 29, 2021 12:47:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by johnnyoi on Jun 29, 2021 12:47:08 GMT
My problem with the Clash’s later stuff was they had their fingers in too many pies.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
The Clash
Jun 29, 2021 12:54:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 12:54:41 GMT
It's all relative but the main reason they changed was that they wanted to become a mainstream rock band. As far as rock bands went they were bloody awful. Why were they "bloody awful" as a "rock band"? Really don't see it. If you label them as a major-ish rock band then you would be placing them in the same arena as the likes of Muse, Manic Street Preachers, Guns N Roses, Coldplay,Elbow and the like and they piss all over those bands for sheer energy. I truly get that people can feel upset with their direction even after the first album but whatever type of band they were, they certainly weren't bloody awful unless you have an agenda against them. You can dislike a band yet admire them for what they do. The reason I don't like those albums was because the music WAS bloody awful. I think playing Shea stadium is definitely within the realms of arena rock, especially back in Clash Mark 2's day. Do you think they were a socialist band...really? It was all smoke and mirrors, mostly done for commercial reasons. |
|
