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Post by zeopold on Jun 29, 2021 13:08:33 GMT
Why were they "bloody awful" as a "rock band"? the music WAS bloody awful. Not as awful as Crass, by a comfortable margin |
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Post by Billy Idle on Jun 29, 2021 13:09:38 GMT
Doug doesn't mention anything about The Clash being a socialist band.
Labelling them bloody awful is wrong, even if you don't appreciate their songs you can objectively see they were something special which of course is why so many people still think they were the only band that matters.
Good point about Throbbing Gristle being closer to Free Jazz Doug.
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Jun 29, 2021 14:49:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 14:49:01 GMT
the music WAS bloody awful. Not as awful as Crass, by a comfortable margin It's all horses for courses but some of these called rockabilly stuff on Sandinista sounded like Matchbox 🤣 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 14:52:16 GMT
Doug doesn't mention anything about The Clash being a socialist band. Labelling them bloody awful is wrong, even if you don't appreciate their songs you can objectively see they were something special which of course is why so many people still think they were the only band that matters. Good point about Throbbing Gristle being closer to Free Jazz Doug. I know he doesn't but that's what I mean by posturing. There's a lot of left wing posturing surrounding the Clash. As for them being bloody awful. Well, that's what they were. You might not like it but to me they could barely write a good song at that point Commercially, they were trying to compete with UB40 and the Police and just weren't good enough. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 29, 2021 15:27:18 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting that, say, these are not good songs...?
I get that you don't personally like them but try to be objective about their impact, tunefulness, lyrical content etc. and consider why they remain so popular all these decades later
The Clash - Straight to Hell
The Clash - Atom Tan
I'd also pick you up on The Clash being in competition with UB40 and The Police? That's so far wide of the mark it's insane
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Post by doug61 on Jun 29, 2021 15:50:54 GMT
Why were they "bloody awful" as a "rock band"? Really don't see it. If you label them as a major-ish rock band then you would be placing them in the same arena as the likes of Muse, Manic Street Preachers, Guns N Roses, Coldplay,Elbow and the like and they piss all over those bands for sheer energy. I truly get that people can feel upset with their direction even after the first album but whatever type of band they were, they certainly weren't bloody awful unless you have an agenda against them. You can dislike a band yet admire them for what they do. The reason I don't like those albums was because the music WAS bloody awful. I think playing Shea stadium is definitely within the realms of arena rock, especially back in Clash Mark 2's day. Do you think they were a socialist band...really? It was all smoke and mirrors, mostly done for commercial reasons. "Do you think they were a socialist band...really?" No, where did I say that? they were politically naive (Strummer) and don't think they other 3 gave a crap about politics, but don't think they particularly pretended to, don't know where that idea even came from apart from Strummer's ramblings in Rude Boy. Can't agree that the music was "bloody awful" though. They were a great rock 'n' roll band and that's what mattered to most people. If I like a song I try not to overthink the other stuff too much. can't imagine liking a song and then wondering if I was "supposed" to like it because of the political leanings of those making the music. It's nice if it all goes together in a package, but the music is what I'm there for at the end of the day. |
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Post by doug61 on Jun 29, 2021 15:53:54 GMT
the music WAS bloody awful. Not as awful as Crass, by a comfortable margin Maybe I'm one of the few that love them both. |
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Post by zeopold on Jun 29, 2021 16:32:45 GMT
^^ Well, I guess that's a matter of taste, but in terms of musicianship The Clash were light years ahead of Crass. I saw them play numerous times, and they were dire.
One of their guitarists literally couldn't play a chord, just slid his finger up and down the fretboard on an open tuning.
Of course, they were more about the message than the music, which was fine until I hit 17 and realised that their message, laudable as it may have been, was hopelessly naive.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 18:41:55 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting that, say, these are not good songs...? I get that you don't personally like them but try to be objective about their impact, tunefulness, lyrical content etc. and consider why they remain so popular all these decades later The Clash - Straight to HellThe Clash - Atom TanI'd also pick you up on The Clash being in competition with UB40 and The Police? That's so far wide of the mark it's insane I don't like them but some people are easily swayed😎🤩 |
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Jun 29, 2021 18:42:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 18:42:40 GMT
^^ Well, I guess that's a matter of taste, but in terms of musicianship The Clash were light years ahead of Crass. I saw them play numerous times, and they were dire. One of their guitarists literally couldn't play a chord, just slid his finger up and down the fretboard on an open tuning. Of course, they were more about the message than the music, which was fine until I hit 17 and realised that their message, laudable as it may have been, was hopelessly naive. So punk was just being a good musician then? Naive?This is from a man who joined the Labour Party which caused an illegal war in Iraq. No wonder you hated Crass!👍 |
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Jun 29, 2021 18:45:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 18:45:37 GMT
The reason I don't like those albums was because the music WAS bloody awful. I think playing Shea stadium is definitely within the realms of arena rock, especially back in Clash Mark 2's day. Do you think they were a socialist band...really? It was all smoke and mirrors, mostly done for commercial reasons. "Do you think they were a socialist band...really?" No, where did I say that? they were politically naive (Strummer) and don't think they other 3 gave a crap about politics, but don't think they particularly pretended to, don't know where that idea even came from apart from Strummer's ramblings in Rude Boy. Can't agree that the music was "bloody awful" though. They were a great rock 'n' roll band and that's what mattered to most people. If I like a song I try not to overthink the other stuff too much. can't imagine liking a song and then wondering if I was "supposed" to like it because of the political leanings of those making the music. It's nice if it all goes together in a package, but the music is what I'm there for at the end of the day. That's what I mean. They were never a socialist band. They used its imagery and campaigns to further their own career. Read anything by Red Saunders. |
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Post by zeopold on Jun 29, 2021 18:49:28 GMT
^^ You: "As far as rock bands went they were bloody awful." Likesay... not as awful as Crass, by a comfortable margin  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 19:37:22 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting that, say, these are not good songs...? I get that you don't personally like them but try to be objective about their impact, tunefulness, lyrical content etc. and consider why they remain so popular all these decades later The Clash - Straight to HellThe Clash - Atom TanI'd also pick you up on The Clash being in competition with UB40 and The Police? That's so far wide of the mark it's insane They were marketed to squabble over the white man's cod reggae audience that both the Police and UB40 had. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 19:39:45 GMT
^^ You: "As far as rock bands went they were bloody awful." Likesay... not as awful as Crass, by a comfortable margin It's all relative to your own personal taste. Didn't most of the Pistols audience declare it was noisey, badly played shite in the beginning? A lot of so called journalists thought it was as did all of Joy Division! |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 30, 2021 7:58:17 GMT
^^ You: "As far as rock bands went they were bloody awful." Likesay... not as awful as Crass, by a comfortable margin It's all relative to your own personal taste. Didn't most of the Pistols audience declare it was noisey, badly played shite in the beginning? A lot of so called journalists thought it was as did all of Joy Division! Taste is all relative but I suspect most objective listeners or any musicologist would describe the Crass sound as pretty rudimentary Then again the point wasn't the music but the message |
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