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Woke
Aug 29, 2022 13:42:31 GMT
Post by jonpunk on Aug 29, 2022 13:42:31 GMT
A few initital thoughts The word Woke has recently become politicised Right wing commentators and outlets (eg Daily Mail) use it as part of their ongoing culture wars Woke seems to have superced Political Correctness as the term of choice to beat progressives over the head with As I understand it, Woke generally embraces the good stuff.... Equality, equal rights, critical re-examination of Britain's imperial past, etc I can't get hot under the collar about it Clearly not everything done in the name of Woke is sane or sensible but I suspect the majority is, at the very least, well intentioned Manchester becoming People-chester or Manholes becoming People-holes... the Mail et al have been banging that drum for decades now Positive discrimation? Probably has it's place. Ethnic minorities are clearly denied opportunity (see also disabled, women etc) and initiative to redress the balance have to be a good thing It's not equal rights though , completely the opposite .Take my workplace , any jobs they may as well add white middle aged men need not apply , as they try to go for a national demographic of 15% this , 5% that , while people ( agency staff who we know work well ) are blatantly over looked.....and yet to reach this demographic in backwards coastal East Anglia , where the demographic is nowhere near the national city one , they are employing people with all sorts of problems .....just to tick s box.Thsy is what HR departments now are , purely box tickers .I am not trying to discredit here , but what happened to getting jobs on merit ? Because you can do the job , have proven so over years , yet are constantly overlooked so someone with all sorts of issues or other, or just purely not up to it physically , ticks a box that someone else doesn't. You get a watered down ineffective work force AND destroy the morale of those already there. I am .... maybe....lucky in that I am a full time eorkervwherevI am , but these days I wouldn't get a look in no matter how well I do the job as I don't tick a box. Tell you what though , I will be glad to be out of the work place scenario and where all this is leading sooner rather than later .
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Post by jonpunk on Aug 29, 2022 13:55:34 GMT
I'm as woke as the day is long, but a bloke in a dress is a bloke in a dress and I'm not about to ban Harry Potter books from my house cos JK is spooked about them hanging around the bogs when she's trying to have a p*** in peace. I'd have to take issue with this. Your politics may be left-of-centre, you may be culturally aware, you may even be politically correct, but you're far too sensible to be "as woke as the day is long". I have a friend who is the high priestess of woke, and she'd feel the need to "educate you" (her favourite words) for asserting that a bloke in a dress is a bloke in a dress if he claims to be a woman. She's also extremely angry with JK Rowling and will only allow her little niece to read the Harry Potter books on condition that she can explain, line by line, what is so "problematic" about them. When that child becomes a teenager, she will almost certainly turn on her and out-woke her and she will be the one getting "educated" and told what is "problematic" about her attitudes. I'm not going to warn her. This is one lesson she needs to learn for herself. The trouble is that they have no sense of humour and have to examine in minute detail everything you say , so they can be offended at some stage . I think there is some ......and there is woke , some mean for the best but some just want trouble . We live in days when humour is gone because it's dangerous to be funny....and a lot of humour is about people or offending somehow , but not in a meaningful way , it's just sometimes pointing out oddities or contradiction........Dave Allen would no way get on TV now were he alive , most programmes we were raised up with wouldn't exist now......did they make us bad people ? They did make us think....but maybe they don't like people to think nowadays 🤔
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Woke
Aug 29, 2022 13:57:36 GMT
Post by jonpunk on Aug 29, 2022 13:57:36 GMT
Doesn't make a bind bit of difference who wins the Tory (lack of) leadership race, the current cost of living crisis will run to 2024 and inflation will no doubt hit 15% next year. My long time prediction of a Labour led coalition looks more and more every day a Labour majority government. Starmer realises, so just does as little as possible and keeps away from having an opinion on anything at all, they will walk the election purely from not being the Tories. To be honest , these days I see little difference between Tory and Labour , they both aim at the centrist vote , either centre right or centre left . Gone are the days there were huge differences between the two, I still think if you get Sunak , you are getting Blair 2 .
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Post by doug61 on Aug 29, 2022 14:42:04 GMT
A few initital thoughts The word Woke has recently become politicised Right wing commentators and outlets (eg Daily Mail) use it as part of their ongoing culture wars Woke seems to have superced Political Correctness as the term of choice to beat progressives over the head with As I understand it, Woke generally embraces the good stuff.... Equality, equal rights, critical re-examination of Britain's imperial past, etc I can't get hot under the collar about it Clearly not everything done in the name of Woke is sane or sensible but I suspect the majority is, at the very least, well intentioned Manchester becoming People-chester or Manholes becoming People-holes... the Mail et al have been banging that drum for decades now Positive discrimation? Probably has it's place. Ethnic minorities are clearly denied opportunity (see also disabled, women etc) and initiative to redress the balance have to be a good thing It's not equal rights though , completely the opposite .Take my workplace , any jobs they may as well add white middle aged men need not apply , as they try to go for a national demographic of 15% this , 5% that , while people ( agency staff who we know work well ) are blatantly over looked.....and yet to reach this demographic in backwards coastal East Anglia , where the demographic is nowhere near the national city one , they are employing people with all sorts of problems .....just to tick s box.Thsy is what HR departments now are , purely box tickers .I am not trying to discredit here , but what happened to getting jobs on merit ? Because you can do the job , have proven so over years , yet are constantly overlooked so someone with all sorts of issues or other, or just purely not up to it physically , ticks a box that someone else doesn't. You get a watered down ineffective work force AND destroy the morale of those already there. I am .... maybe....lucky in that I am a full time eorkervwherevI am , but these days I wouldn't get a look in no matter how well I do the job as I don't tick a box. Tell you what though , I will be glad to be out of the work place scenario and where all this is leading sooner rather than later . You can't get a job unless you can get an interview and I personally have experience of managers who used to tear up CVs in front of me that had foreign names. There should definitely be positive discrimination in the CV stage of employment and then people should be interviewed always by more than 1 person to keep racism out of the process, then give it to the best person. Only place for box ticking perhaps is in the event of a complete toss up between candidates.
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Post by doug61 on Aug 29, 2022 14:45:05 GMT
I'd have to take issue with this. Your politics may be left-of-centre, you may be culturally aware, you may even be politically correct, but you're far too sensible to be "as woke as the day is long". I have a friend who is the high priestess of woke, and she'd feel the need to "educate you" (her favourite words) for asserting that a bloke in a dress is a bloke in a dress if he claims to be a woman. She's also extremely angry with JK Rowling and will only allow her little niece to read the Harry Potter books on condition that she can explain, line by line, what is so "problematic" about them. When that child becomes a teenager, she will almost certainly turn on her and out-woke her and she will be the one getting "educated" and told what is "problematic" about her attitudes. I'm not going to warn her. This is one lesson she needs to learn for herself. The trouble is that they have no sense of humour and have to examine in minute detail everything you say , so they can be offended at some stage . I think there is some ......and there is woke , some mean for the best but some just want trouble . We live in days when humour is gone because it's dangerous to be funny....and a lot of humour is about people or offending somehow , but not in a meaningful way , it's just sometimes pointing out oddities or contradiction........Dave Allen would no way get on TV now were he alive , most programmes we were raised up with wouldn't exist now......did they make us bad people ? They did make us think....but maybe they don't like people to think nowadays 🤔 You never find a sense of humour in either the far right or far left, too busy desperately making sure they don't say or do anything that doesn't pass ideological muster. Not the types to be stuck in a lift with.
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Post by doug61 on Aug 29, 2022 14:52:14 GMT
Doesn't make a bind bit of difference who wins the Tory (lack of) leadership race, the current cost of living crisis will run to 2024 and inflation will no doubt hit 15% next year. My long time prediction of a Labour led coalition looks more and more every day a Labour majority government. Starmer realises, so just does as little as possible and keeps away from having an opinion on anything at all, they will walk the election purely from not being the Tories. To be honest , these days I see little difference between Tory and Labour , they both aim at the centrist vote , either centre right or centre left . Gone are the days there were huge differences between the two, I still think if you get Sunak , you are getting Blair 2 . There would be a difference in public service financing, Labour would at least keep it just about functioning whereas the Conservatives will run the NHS down to the position where they can say it's unfit for purpose and replace it with an insurance system. Mind you, ever Tories are having socialist thoughts now days that are more extreme than the Labour leader which really says something about how out of touch politicians are. www.malaymail.com/news/world/2022/08/29/poll-half-of-uk-conservative-voters-back-renationalising-energy-firms/25381"The YouGov poll for the Times newspaper found 47 per cent of those who currently plan to vote Conservative at the next election favoured returning the energy companies to public ownership, with 28 per cent percent opposed and 25 per cent unsure. Among those who voted for the Conservatives at the last election in 2019, 53 per cent backed renationalisation."
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Woke
Aug 29, 2022 17:23:05 GMT
Post by politician2 on Aug 29, 2022 17:23:05 GMT
In some cases, it's more significant than that, and non-white people have become hugely overrepresented. A case in point is TV commercials. Black people (as opposed to other ethnic minorities) make up 3% of the UK population yet nearly half of all people in commercials. I've seen some commercial breaks where there were more black people than white, which would reflect the racial make-up of Bermuda (where two-thirds of the population is black and the other third white) but not the UK. Even more oddly, Asian and Oriental people almost never appear in commercials, even though their numbers are comparable to those of blacks. I'm genuinely baffled as to what is happening here.
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Woke
Aug 29, 2022 17:24:39 GMT
Post by politician2 on Aug 29, 2022 17:24:39 GMT
The trouble is that they have no sense of humour and have to examine in minute detail everything you say , so they can be offended at some stage . Exactly, Jon. That is the difference between the "woke" and those who are merely left-wing or socially conscious. That's what I like about this site: it is not woke. The only woke member we've ever had was Qrobur, and we got rid of him after he rubbed everybody up the wrong way.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Aug 29, 2022 18:31:20 GMT
A few initital thoughts The word Woke has recently become politicised Right wing commentators and outlets (eg Daily Mail) use it as part of their ongoing culture wars Woke seems to have superced Political Correctness as the term of choice to beat progressives over the head with As I understand it, Woke generally embraces the good stuff.... Equality, equal rights, critical re-examination of Britain's imperial past, etc I can't get hot under the collar about it Clearly not everything done in the name of Woke is sane or sensible but I suspect the majority is, at the very least, well intentioned Manchester becoming People-chester or Manholes becoming People-holes... the Mail et al have been banging that drum for decades now Positive discrimation? Probably has it's place. Ethnic minorities are clearly denied opportunity (see also disabled, women etc) and initiative to redress the balance have to be a good thing It's not equal rights though , completely the opposite .Take my workplace , any jobs they may as well add white middle aged men need not apply , as they try to go for a national demographic of 15% this , 5% that , while people ( agency staff who we know work well ) are blatantly over looked.....and yet to reach this demographic in backwards coastal East Anglia , where the demographic is nowhere near the national city one , they are employing people with all sorts of problems .....just to tick s box.Thsy is what HR departments now are , purely box tickers .I am not trying to discredit here , but what happened to getting jobs on merit ? Because you can do the job , have proven so over years , yet are constantly overlooked so someone with all sorts of issues or other, or just purely not up to it physically , ticks a box that someone else doesn't. You get a watered down ineffective work force AND destroy the morale of those already there. I am .... maybe....lucky in that I am a full time eorkervwherevI am , but these days I wouldn't get a look in no matter how well I do the job as I don't tick a box. Tell you what though , I will be glad to be out of the work place scenario and where all this is leading sooner rather than later. That makes very depressing reading Jon I can't argue with your lived experience or your perceptions I can't believe your employer is very typical though Your sentiments are similar to a lot of Trump voters who also believed their particular race/gender/sexuality (delete as applicable) was under attack The bigger picture doesn't seem to support this perception I'm also aware of confirmation bias here (on all sides)
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Woke
Aug 29, 2022 18:34:14 GMT
Post by Lord Emsworth on Aug 29, 2022 18:34:14 GMT
In some cases, it's more significant than that, and non-white people have become hugely overrepresented. A case in point is TV commercials. Black people (as opposed to other ethnic minorities) make up 3% of the UK population yet nearly half of all people in commercials. I view this as very postive (though have not watched any ad breaks where black people make up half the participants - what channels do you see this on Pol?) I love seeing minorities represented, even over represented, on TV For decades you'd never know they lived here and if the pendulum has swung into over represenation so what? Bring it on I say
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Woke
Aug 29, 2022 18:55:53 GMT
Post by politician2 on Aug 29, 2022 18:55:53 GMT
In some cases, it's more significant than that, and non-white people have become hugely overrepresented. A case in point is TV commercials. Black people (as opposed to other ethnic minorities) make up 3% of the UK population yet nearly half of all people in commercials. I view this as very postive (though have not watched any ad breaks where black people make up half the participants - what channels do you see this on Pol?) I love seeing minorities represented, even over represented, on TV For decades you'd never know they lived here and if the pendulum has swung into over represenation so what? Bring it on I say Why is it "very positive" that black people make up 3% of the population but nearly 50% of people in TV commercials? Why should that particular group be overrepresented when other minority groups such as Asians and Orientals hardly ever appear in such ads? I suspect I watch the same channels as you – ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5, UK Gold, etc. The overrepresentation is common to all of them, though as I noted it was only "some commercial breaks" (i.e. not the majority of them) where they made up more than half the people involved.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 18:56:14 GMT
Bearing in mind that in the interim I believe in giving working class people decent wages, enough money to heat their homes properly and to feed and clothe themselves adequately whilst you support a party which openly perpetuates their misery I would say that the only person on here who is an extremist is you. Yes, I'm sure you would say that. I doubt anyone else on here would agree with you. For years you've been banging on how correct your party's political and economic policy is and now you're questioning it? If you're wrong about this what else are you wrong about? Lots of stuff. I confidently predicted, for instance, that Putin would not be crazy enough to invade Ukraine. I certainly don't claim to be infallible. Ah, the old Eastern Bloc argument. Show me an instance where I've supported such oppression in Eastern Europe? You haven't, but you continue to support communism – a belief system that has resulted in suppression, torture and murder everywhere it has been implemented. When confronted with this argument, you resort to a "true Scotsman" defence, insisting that none of the communist systems in history practised true communism. On the contrary you support a government and an ideology which has massacred people in Ireland for protesting about their lack of human rights and democracy. It's as if Bloody Sunday the Ballymurphy massacre and MI5's campaign in North Armagh never happen. Nobody is suggesting that governments do not make the wrong calls from time to time. But you actively support regimes that systematically – and continuously – murder their citizens for ideological reasons, as demonstrated by your hagiography of Fidel Castro on his death on the old TP site. So you're a white supremacist in your own terms? Glad we got that one cleared up at last. No. I said I might be a white supremacist according to your definition, which I suspect is likely to be quite different from most other people's. In a nutshell White Supremacy is an extreme right wing/fascist ideology which is based on the idea that it's'normal' to suppress another races political and cultural heritage. What do you mean by "political heritage"? "Cultural heritage" I obviously understand, but this term seems somewhat odd. I'll answer your points in order. 1)Does it matter that I'm the only one on here who thinks your a right wing extremist? There's definitely a lot of people on here who oppose your party's policies which are currently tantamount to a genocide. 2)To think that the West are not protecting their own interests by arming Ukraine against their former friend and ally is totally naive. The real point is that the policies that your party is propagating are universally despised by most of the country including seemingly, a lot of Tory voters/supporters. Whose right? You or them? 3)I've no problem being seen as a communist I've never been a Stalinist. I believe in socialist humanitarianism just like Connolly and McLean. They might not mean anything to a lot of British socialists but their ideas resonate with Irish Republicans and working class Scottish Socialists. The British Road to socialism is well and truely dead. As a Republican socialist I believe the break up of Britain is a prerequisite to building socialism. This is happening. Occupied Ireland and Scotland have the right to succede. 4)The Cuban State had every right to defend it's sovereignty against armed terrorists funded and armed by the US during the Bay of Pigs invasion. The fact that they were Cubans is irrelevant. They were combatants who knew what they were doing and why. The fact they were annihilated is just the risk they stupidity took. Likewise, with all counter revolutionaries, spies and informers. They declared war and they got it. You'd be better looking at the murderers of the British army who murdered their 'own' citizens, whitewashed the slaughter of unarmed civilians on Bloody Sunday and then lied that they were responsible. 5)'Most people' again. Who are these 'people'. I see you don't deny it. 6)With repression comes resistance. Races that the white race has oppressed have had their own political heritage and resistance culture. Look at the likes of the Black Panthers and the Republican movement in Ireland. It's no accident that Irish people were caricatured as 'apes' by white Victorian Britain. It was their white supremacist world view.
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Deleted
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Woke
Aug 29, 2022 19:04:04 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 19:04:04 GMT
A few initital thoughts The word Woke has recently become politicised Right wing commentators and outlets (eg Daily Mail) use it as part of their ongoing culture wars Woke seems to have superced Political Correctness as the term of choice to beat progressives over the head with As I understand it, Woke generally embraces the good stuff.... Equality, equal rights, critical re-examination of Britain's imperial past, etc I can't get hot under the collar about it Clearly not everything done in the name of Woke is sane or sensible but I suspect the majority is, at the very least, well intentioned Manchester becoming People-chester or Manholes becoming People-holes... the Mail et al have been banging that drum for decades now Positive discrimation? Probably has it's place. Ethnic minorities are clearly denied opportunity (see also disabled, women etc) and initiative to redress the balance have to be a good thing It's not equal rights though , completely the opposite .Take my workplace , any jobs they may as well add white middle aged men need not apply , as they try to go for a national demographic of 15% this , 5% that , while people ( agency staff who we know work well ) are blatantly over looked.....and yet to reach this demographic in backwards coastal East Anglia , where the demographic is nowhere near the national city one , they are employing people with all sorts of problems .....just to tick s box.Thsy is what HR departments now are , purely box tickers .I am not trying to discredit here , but what happened to getting jobs on merit ? Because you can do the job , have proven so over years , yet are constantly overlooked so someone with all sorts of issues or other, or just purely not up to it physically , ticks a box that someone else doesn't. You get a watered down ineffective work force AND destroy the morale of those already there. I am .... maybe....lucky in that I am a full time eorkervwherevI am , but these days I wouldn't get a look in no matter how well I do the job as I don't tick a box. Tell you what though , I will be glad to be out of the work place scenario and where all this is leading sooner rather than later . I've certainly been discriminated in Scotland as a Catholic of Irish descent in the work place and I'm white. It was common to be asked what school you went to at interviews. The Engineering, Printing and Shipbuilding industries in Glasgow were rife with anti Irish racism and religious prejudice. Scottish society hasn't even had the decency to admit it has a problem with this ever since An Gorta Mor and mass Irish immigration. Considering the racism black people face every day in society, they have the right to be protected in the work place by racist and bigoted perceptions.
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Deleted
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Woke
Aug 29, 2022 19:07:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 19:07:29 GMT
In some cases, it's more significant than that, and non-white people have become hugely overrepresented. A case in point is TV commercials. Black people (as opposed to other ethnic minorities) make up 3% of the UK population yet nearly half of all people in commercials. I've seen some commercial breaks where there were more black people than white, which would reflect the racial make-up of Bermuda (where two-thirds of the population is black and the other third white) but not the UK. Even more oddly, Asian and Oriental people almost never appear in commercials, even though their numbers are comparable to those of blacks. I'm genuinely baffled as to what is happening here. Why does it bother you so much that there's more black people on the telly? I suppose you have 'data' to back up the facts that half of people in all the adverts on the telly are black?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 19:11:54 GMT
The trouble is that they have no sense of humour and have to examine in minute detail everything you say , so they can be offended at some stage . Exactly, Jon. That is the difference between the "woke" and those who are merely left-wing or socially conscious. That's what I like about this site: it is not woke. The only woke member we've ever had was Qrobur, and we got rid of him after he rubbed everybody up the wrong way. You and Jon seem obsessed with this 'woke' rubbish. It's all right wing liberalism. You have them on one side with their identity politics and Daily Express fascists who think their little Englander fantasy is being threatened because they can't watch outdated, racist drivel like 'It Ain't 'all Hot Mum'.
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