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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 5, 2023 13:09:26 GMT
In other words, greedy selfish fuckers who are happy to use public services but don't think they should pay what they can afford No, that's not the case at all. Provided those people paid their taxes up to date wherever they used to live and continue to pay their taxes where they are now, they have "paid what they can afford" in full. Zeo tends to argue that people should continue to fund public services in places where they no longer consume them, which to me is nonsensical. People should pay what they can afford for the collective benefit - even if they don't personally use the services. The amount of tax the UK loses is scandalous and would go a long way to paying back the deficit and funding essential services Start with Mrs Sunak, and then move on to the tabloid proprieters who don't even pay tax here (and, yes, get The Guardian to pay their full whack too) |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 5, 2023 13:12:06 GMT
People should pay what they can afford for the collective benefit - even if they don't personally use the services. Yes, as that is a fundamental principle of taxation – one has to pay for the NHS even if one has private medical insurance, for instance. But that is not the argument here. Zeo is arguing that people should pay tax to support public services in a country in which they don't live or work. |
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Post by zeopold on Jan 5, 2023 13:17:57 GMT
People should pay what they can afford for the collective benefit - even if they don't personally use the services. Zeo is arguing that people should pay tax to support public services in a country in which they don't live or work. If an IoM resident derives their income from selling ice creams to the TT spectators, then they are duty bound to contribute to the upkeep of the roads on the island. Fair's fair. If they're operating a business that leeches off taxpayer funded infrastructure elsewhere, not so much. |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 5, 2023 13:21:09 GMT
If they're operating a business that leeches off taxpayer funded infrastructure elsewhere, not so much. Nearly all businesses have some slight level of dependency on other countries' infrastructure – for example, a mail order business that is based in, and operates solely from, say, Italy will use courier and postal services to deliver its products around the world. That doesn't mean for a second that it owes taxes anywhere except in Italy. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 5, 2023 13:30:53 GMT
I'm no expert but, as I understand it, the British government has been central to the success of offshore tax dodging with its overseas territories and crown dependencies being the locations of choice for those wanting to hide their wealth and avoid tax. The Isle of Man is a part of this
It doesn't surprise me that you defend this situation as you are an unapologetic Tory who is presumably comfortable with a lot of their divisive and unfair policies. Also, presumably, you personally benefit from the system
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Post by zeopold on Jan 5, 2023 13:36:45 GMT
If they're operating a business that leeches off taxpayer funded infrastructure elsewhere, not so much. Nearly all businesses have some slight level of dependency on other countries' infrastructure Unlikely to be as slight as their dependency on the infrastructure of the hidey-hole they operate from in the case of offshore-registered businesses. |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 5, 2023 13:38:44 GMT
I'm no expert but, as I understand it, the British government has been central to the success of offshore tax dodging with its overseas territories and crown dependencies being the locations of choice for those wanting to hide their wealth and avoid tax. The Isle of Man is a part of this. The British Government made a decision, decades back, that its Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories should be self-financing as far as possible, and encouraged them to develop offshore finance industries to generate revenue. The French Government treats its Overseas Departments in a completely different way, administering them as part of Metropolitan France for fiscal purposes (though they have the right to declare independence following a referendum). Those Departments are an astonishing drain on the French public purse and have fundamentally broken economies. In Réunion, for example, unemployment stood at 30% from the early eighties until the early noughties, and 40% of people live below the poverty line. In Saint-Pierre & Miquelon, a two-island nation of 6,000 people, there are two airports with full-sized runways and the "national" airline operates a substantial ATR-42 turboprop. As such, there is no one solution that is ideal when it comes to managing remote island communities: every approach has its advantages and drawbacks. |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 5, 2023 13:39:26 GMT
Nearly all businesses have some slight level of dependency on other countries' infrastructure Unlikely to be as slight as their dependency on the infrastructure of the hidey-hole they operate from in the case of offshore-registered businesses. All right, then: give me an example of what you would consider a substantial dependency on another country's infrastructure. |
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Post by zeopold on Jan 5, 2023 13:52:18 GMT
Unlikely to be as slight as their dependency on the infrastructure of the hidey-hole they operate from in the case of offshore-registered businesses. All right, then: give me an example of what you would consider a substantial dependency on another country's infrastructure. Operating a business in a country where; - Territorial integrity guaranteed by armed forces - Law and order maintained by a police force - Workforce / supply chain educated - Workforce / supply chain healthcare provided - Critical infrastructure / public utilities maintained ...etc, etc, by taxes paid by residents of that country |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 5, 2023 13:57:31 GMT
Operating a business in a country where; - Territorial integrity guaranteed by armed forces - Law and order maintained by a police force - Workforce / supply chain educated - Workforce / supply chain healthcare provided - Critical infrastructure / public utilities maintained ...etc, etc, by taxes paid by residents of that country Let's take these points in order, specifically with regard to the Isle of Man (though this would apply to any financially self-supporting Crown Dependency or Overseas Territory): – Guaranteed by the UK, but we pay an annual fee for it, so it's funded by my Isle of Man taxes not by the UK taxpayer. – Maintained by the Isle of Man Police, for which I pay Isle of Man taxes. – Some residents will have been educated in other countries, for which their parents will have paid taxes there. – Healthcare is provided by Manx Care, for which I pay Isle of Man taxes. – Critical infrastructure is maintained by the Isle of Man Government, to whom I pay Isle of Man taxes. You simply don't have a tenable argument here. |
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Post by zeopold on Jan 5, 2023 14:13:37 GMT
Operating a business in a country where; - Territorial integrity guaranteed by armed forces - Law and order maintained by a police force - Workforce / supply chain educated - Workforce / supply chain healthcare provided - Critical infrastructure / public utilities maintained ...etc, etc, by taxes paid by residents of that country Let's take these points in order, specifically with regard to the Isle of Man (though this would apply to any financially self-supporting Crown Dependency or Overseas Territory): – Guaranteed by the UK, but we pay an annual fee for it, so it's funded by my Isle of Man taxes not by the UK taxpayer. – Maintained by the Isle of Man Police, for which I pay Isle of Man taxes. – Some residents will have been educated in other countries, for which their parents will have paid taxes there. – Healthcare is provided by Manx Care, for which I pay Isle of Man taxes. – Critical infrastructure is maintained by the Isle of Man Government, to whom I pay Isle of Man taxes. Likesay, all well and good if you're operating an ice cream van in Douglas. |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 5, 2023 14:14:55 GMT
Let's take these points in order, specifically with regard to the Isle of Man (though this would apply to any financially self-supporting Crown Dependency or Overseas Territory): – Guaranteed by the UK, but we pay an annual fee for it, so it's funded by my Isle of Man taxes not by the UK taxpayer. – Maintained by the Isle of Man Police, for which I pay Isle of Man taxes. – Some residents will have been educated in other countries, for which their parents will have paid taxes there. – Healthcare is provided by Manx Care, for which I pay Isle of Man taxes. – Critical infrastructure is maintained by the Isle of Man Government, to whom I pay Isle of Man taxes. Likesay, all well and good if you're operating an ice cream van in Douglas. All well and good if you're operating any kind of business in Douglas. Because the public services you've mentioned are necessary to all people and enterprises in the island, and are all funded by Isle of Man taxation, not the UK. |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 5, 2023 14:40:14 GMT
So did Isle of Man pay for their own vaccines, business support etc?
I genuinely don't know
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Post by zeopold on Jan 5, 2023 14:45:51 GMT
Likesay, all well and good if you're operating an ice cream van in Douglas. the public services you've mentioned are necessary to all people and enterprises in the island, and are all funded by Isle of Man taxation ...with money stolen from the citizens of the countries where the offshore-registered businesses operate. |
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Post by politician2 on Jan 5, 2023 14:48:55 GMT
the public services you've mentioned are necessary to all people and enterprises in the island, and are all funded by Isle of Man taxation ...with money stolen from the citizens of the countries where the offshore-registered businesses operate. Except it isn't actually "stolen", is it? You're simply using a word to mean something it doesn't here. |
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