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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 14:43:37 GMT
Well, it was described as a 'conspiracy theory'in some quarters.
Is that an accurate portrayal?
It seems to me that even though stupid politicians and media celebrities don't get their facts right then even the slightest mention of Israeli human rights abuses are conflated with anti semitism and this is what Starmer is enforcing.
Yet another reason to take on the'left'by Starmer?
Good luck to them as the more infighting the better as far as I'm concerned as we'll get an Independent Scotland and United Ireland quicker.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 26, 2020 15:08:29 GMT
Whatever it is, it's both innaccurate and lazy
There's plenty of factually accurate stuff to lay at Israel's door
Labour's antisemitism problem is not down to people who have hatred in their hearts, but people who are either unable to see the problem when it is in right in front of them, or are unwilling to confront or condemn expressions of it when it happens.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 16:31:36 GMT
True, there are anti semites in the Labour Party. It's an extreme right party whose voters are equally right wing.
However, the conflation of Anti semitism with pro Palestinian national self determination is what the Zionists want to anchor around the necks of Labour and obviously some people walk right into it because they're too stupid.
However, this is being used to hammer genuine anti imperialists insofar they hope to gag any criticism of Israel and its sickening human rights abuses.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 26, 2020 17:16:28 GMT
The usual description of The Labour Party goes something like... an alliance of trade unionists, social democrats, and democratic socialists
a centre-left political party
None in that alliance would recognise a characterisation of "an extreme right party" Nor would any of their 580,000 registered members
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 18:22:07 GMT
Supporting and sending troops to illegal wars, destabilising whole countries. Most of it's voters are white racists who want to get rid of migrants.
Propping up cuts in benefits to the unemployed, dismantling the welfare state etc
And before I even get to Ireland where they presided over state sponsored death squads, torture, internment,introducing plastic bullets which killed children.
You're analysis doesn't include what they did in reality.
That's warped
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 26, 2020 18:59:44 GMT
The United Kingdom has done very bad things The Labour Party have been party to some of these bad things It does not follow that....
Labour voters are white racists who want to get rid of migrants The Labour Party is an extreme right party
That's a false dichotomy
Labour voters are more likely to be young (under 30)
and educated (degree level and above)
Two groups least likely to be racist or attracted to an extreme right wing political party
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 19:20:39 GMT
The reality is different.
Ask most white working class Labour voters in the North of England if they think they should get rid of our fellow EU citizens from Eastern Europe? I bet some of them say at 'least some' of them.
It seems to me as if people can jump on and off the Labour Party merry-go-round when it suits them.
Mass killings and torture by British troops in Iraq sanctioned illegally by a war criminal?
Fuck that!!We support the NHS!
That's bad.
Now the same party is ok to support?
Seems akin to holocaust denial to me for a lot of Labour supporters and voters.
Rewrite history despite what they actually DID do in the past.
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Post by zeopold on Jun 26, 2020 20:40:46 GMT
It seems to me as if people can jump on and off the Labour Party merry-go-round when it suits them. yah, same should apply to members of all political parties. I left cos of Iraq, rejoined after Blair and left again cos of Corbyn and antisemitism. Rejoined to vote for Starmer and glad he's leading now. I think he'll be good for the party. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 21:13:43 GMT
You think l so?
There an old Glesga expression when it come to mercenaries like Starmer the Warmer..
'Yer ontae plums'.
👍
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 27, 2020 8:03:55 GMT
I left cos of Iraq, rejoined after Blair and left again cos of Corbyn and antisemitism. Rejoined to vote for Starmer and glad he's leading now. I think he'll be good for the party. I've never been a member but always vote for them
Zeo's analysis sums up my feelings
Starmer looks like he's going to be effective - and I think he's a good egg
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 27, 2020 8:08:56 GMT
Question for Rogue... Imagine this scenario: You live in England You live in a marginal seat which swings between Tories and Labour - so every vote counts
Your choices are... LABOUR CONSERVATIVE LIB DEMS GREEN MONSTER RAVING SOME RANDOM FAR LEFT PARTY SOME RANDOM FAR RIGHT PARTY Who do you vote for?(This is the scenario I am faced with every election complete with the limitations of the highly undemocratic first past the post system) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 11:23:39 GMT
I would vote Green/communist and encourage the break up of Britain as both Labour and the Tories are extreme right wing parties.
If England had it's own parliament there would be more of a chance of a genuine left wing party developing.
However given that large swathes of the white working class are racist and support the Tories, theres little chance of this happening in the future.
The Labour liberal's are mostly middle class and their lives bear no relation to your average working class punter.
Encouraging the break up of Britain is your only chance.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 27, 2020 12:18:55 GMT
Thanks Encouraging the break up of Britain is your only chance. How does that help England? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 14:34:12 GMT
It means that in their own parliament they can sort their own problems out without tying other countries to policies and governments they don't want or voted for.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 27, 2020 15:23:00 GMT
So it doesn't really help England, just helps the other countries?
I would imagine the break up is inevitable now
Johnson shafted the DUP
Scotland must surely get another independence vote which it's hard to see not resulting in an independent Scotland
Not sure where Wales stands in all this - the majority there might be happy to stay linked to England
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