|
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 22, 2020 7:11:07 GMT
Interesting article... 'Crushed by Brexit': how Labour lost the electionIn the first of a new series, leading figures in party’s campaign tell of tactical spats, mixed messages and frayed tempers
As Jeremy Corbyn’s top aide, Seumas Milne, drove to Finsbury Park on election night to watch the exit poll with his boss in an anonymous office lent by a charity to skirt the media scrum, he took a call from the Scottish National party’s Westminster leader, Ian Blackford.
The genial Scottish MP wanted to prepare the ground for the two parties to enter into immediate talks, if the result was a hung parliament – but Milne told him there was no chance of that.
After a bruising six-week campaign, he and Corbyn’s lieutenants were resigned to humiliation at the hands of Boris Johnson.
Rest here
|
|
|
Post by personunknown on Jan 22, 2020 9:23:15 GMT
So they're analysing where they went wrong now?
Prior to the election they were incapable of critical self reflection and portrayed themselves as saviours of the working class. Across the board from Thornberry to McDonnell, they failed to see that working people have aspirations. All over Europe, the mantra of we know what's good for you has failed and then you get the knee jerk reaction of the populist right taking power. The left is blinkered to history.
And even now, some are still saying they won the 'argument' for fucks sake.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 22, 2020 12:53:33 GMT
I'll be interested to see where this self reflection takes them
As you suggest PU there seem to be some fairly obvious mistakes - still, plenty of time for reflection now as there's unlikely to be an election for years
|
|
|
Post by politician2 on Jan 22, 2020 13:16:49 GMT
I wrote a piece on this topic on Facebook, and might as well reproduce it verbatim here:
Now that the dust has started to settle on the general election result, it's important to address the question of why Labour lost so heavily. Post-election interviews with voters in the Northern heartland seats that fell to Labour have produced a clear and unequivocal result: Jeremy Corbyn. Yet for all that, things aren't quite as simple as they appear: this was his second election as Labour leader, and whilst he lost the first, he managed a fairly respectable 262 seats. So what's changed?
The main thing, of course, is Labour’s stance on Brexit. In 2017, Labour presented itself as a pro-Brexit party, albeit favouring a much softer form of separation than the Conservatives. By 2019, arch-Leaver Corbyn, browbeaten by his overwhelmingly pro-Remain lieutenants and membership, had accepted the necessity of a fudge to square the circle: a renegotiation of the deal followed by a new referendum in which Labour would remain neutral between its own deal and remaining.
The problem is that the British public have well-tuned bullshit detectors and were only too aware that this was a thinly-veiled attempt to overturn the referendum result: a vote that Labour’s haughty and disdainful activists believed should not have been permitted in the first place. The Liberal Democrats, who had actively called for the referendum and then pledged to support the result, took a more extreme stance: they would cancel Brexit without a further vote. They got precisely what they deserved, with leader Jo Swinson losing her Parliamentary seat.
Yet, for all that, Corbyn was merely a symptom of Labour’s malaise rather than a cause of it, and the blame for their defeat (and its scale) could arguably be laid at the door of two previous leaders. First, Ed Miliband put in place the current system where the final selection of leader is made by the party membership rather than an electoral college, and where membership is available to anyone for three pounds. This allowed Momentum to infiltrate the party with a degree of success that Militant Tendency could only have dreamed of, and led to the selection of Corbyn rather than a more moderate candidate. Secondly, Tony Blair introduced Scottish devolution, believing that there would be a corner of the UK that would always be Labour: instead, he unleashed the Kraken of Scottish nationalism, and Labour is now the fourth-placed party in Scotland, with a single parliamentary seat.
However, the real problem is the party’s activists and core members: young, Marxist, university-educated and Europhile, they are in many ways the polar opposite of the party’s traditional Northern voter base. The issues that motivate the party activists – Israel, identity politics, open borders, transgender rights, vilifying billionaires, conspiracy theories involving Russians and Jews – are of little interest to the average Northern Labour voter. Similarly, the concerns of those average voters – having their referendum vote respected, controlling immigration, law and order – are anathema to the Marxist contingent.
The fault lines were laid bare by the Brexit vote, and traditional Northern Labour voters have spent the last three-and-a-half years being excoriated by its Marxist activists on social media as racist, bigoted, reactionary provincial simpletons who should not be allowed anywhere near a polling station. In the 2019 election, they bit back, with seats that have not returned Conservative MPs since before the war, and even former mining communities, turning from red to blue.
This, in turn, has only enraged the Marxist commentariat even more, and in the 48 hours since the election the level of craziness has moved up a further notch. Politics is largely a tribal business, and few people are keen to join tribes whose representatives appear to be foul-mouthed, spittle-flecked, ranting psychopaths. In other words, having just lost one election, these Labour supporters have already started the groundwork towards losing the next – and if the Tories move to the left, with their complement of new MPs representing working-class communities, Labour could find itself out of power for a generation, no matter who replaces Corbyn.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 22, 2020 13:54:29 GMT
Yeah, agree with a fair bit of that
Final paragraph...
...and if the Tories move to the left, with their complement of new MPs representing working-class communities, Labour could find itself out of power for a generation...
I would be amazed if that happens, but we'll see
|
|
|
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 22, 2020 14:14:41 GMT
The other unknown variable is what happens post Brexit
Those Northern voters have had huge promises made to them about spending however the government's own impact assessments show that it will be the North and the Midlands which will suffer most after Brexit
Perhaps it really will turn out to have been Project Fear but I suspect not
Johnson and the Tories now own Brexit and that could turn out to be quite the poison chalice especially given Sajid Javid's latest comments about no alignment with the EU post Brexit which suggest he is unconcerned about the practicalities of maintaining economic prosperity and growth
We'll see
|
|
|
Post by politician2 on Jan 22, 2020 14:17:15 GMT
Yes – this could prove to be an election that was very good to lose. Labour has generally been lucky in that respect over the years (most notably in 1970, 1992 and 2010).
|
|
|
Post by personunknown on Jan 22, 2020 15:24:33 GMT
Yeah, agree with a fair bit of that Final paragraph... ...and if the Tories move to the left, with their complement of new MPs representing working-class communities, Labour could find itself out of power for a generation...I would be amazed if that happens, but we'll see Johnson has already toned down his right wing buffoonery persona. He was discussing Veganism in an accommodating manner the other day. Pre election, Vegans were the great unwashed.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 22, 2020 15:43:46 GMT
It would be one hell of a transformation
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2020 22:38:08 GMT
Yeah, agree with a fair bit of that Final paragraph... ...and if the Tories move to the left, with their complement of new MPs representing working-class communities, Labour could find itself out of power for a generation...I would be amazed if that happens, but we'll see Johnson has already toned down his right wing buffoonery persona. He was discussing Veganism in an accommodating manner the other day. Pre election, Vegans were the great unwashed. Johnson uses right wing libertarianism for his own cryto fascist ends. I mean the whole embracing of right wing rhetoric regarding sexual politics and ethnic minorities is a really base form of Strasserism anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 15, 2020 7:40:58 GMT
Had to look up Strasserism - dunno how that had passed me by. Interesting little diversion. thanks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 9:02:38 GMT
Had to look up Strasserism - dunno how that had passed me by. Interesting little diversion. thanks. What's a diversion?
|
|
|
Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 15, 2020 10:24:11 GMT
You mean the definition of the word diversion?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 11:00:42 GMT
You mean the definition of the word diversion? No why is it a diversion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 11:05:10 GMT
I wrote a piece on this topic on Facebook, and might as well reproduce it verbatim here: Now that the dust has started to settle on the general election result, it's important to address the question of why Labour lost so heavily. Post-election interviews with voters in the Northern heartland seats that fell to Labour have produced a clear and unequivocal result: Jeremy Corbyn. Yet for all that, things aren't quite as simple as they appear: this was his second election as Labour leader, and whilst he lost the first, he managed a fairly respectable 262 seats. So what's changed? The main thing, of course, is Labour’s stance on Brexit. In 2017, Labour presented itself as a pro-Brexit party, albeit favouring a much softer form of separation than the Conservatives. By 2019, arch-Leaver Corbyn, browbeaten by his overwhelmingly pro-Remain lieutenants and membership, had accepted the necessity of a fudge to square the circle: a renegotiation of the deal followed by a new referendum in which Labour would remain neutral between its own deal and remaining. The problem is that the British public have well-tuned bullshit detectors and were only too aware that this was a thinly-veiled attempt to overturn the referendum result: a vote that Labour’s haughty and disdainful activists believed should not have been permitted in the first place. The Liberal Democrats, who had actively called for the referendum and then pledged to support the result, took a more extreme stance: they would cancel Brexit without a further vote. They got precisely what they deserved, with leader Jo Swinson losing her Parliamentary seat. Yet, for all that, Corbyn was merely a symptom of Labour’s malaise rather than a cause of it, and the blame for their defeat (and its scale) could arguably be laid at the door of two previous leaders. First, Ed Miliband put in place the current system where the final selection of leader is made by the party membership rather than an electoral college, and where membership is available to anyone for three pounds. This allowed Momentum to infiltrate the party with a degree of success that Militant Tendency could only have dreamed of, and led to the selection of Corbyn rather than a more moderate candidate. Secondly, Tony Blair introduced Scottish devolution, believing that there would be a corner of the UK that would always be Labour: instead, he unleashed the Kraken of Scottish nationalism, and Labour is now the fourth-placed party in Scotland, with a single parliamentary seat. However, the real problem is the party’s activists and core members: young, Marxist, university-educated and Europhile, they are in many ways the polar opposite of the party’s traditional Northern voter base. The issues that motivate the party activists – Israel, identity politics, open borders, transgender rights, vilifying billionaires, conspiracy theories involving Russians and Jews – are of little interest to the average Northern Labour voter. Similarly, the concerns of those average voters – having their referendum vote respected, controlling immigration, law and order – are anathema to the Marxist contingent. The fault lines were laid bare by the Brexit vote, and traditional Northern Labour voters have spent the last three-and-a-half years being excoriated by its Marxist activists on social media as racist, bigoted, reactionary provincial simpletons who should not be allowed anywhere near a polling station. In the 2019 election, they bit back, with seats that have not returned Conservative MPs since before the war, and even former mining communities, turning from red to blue. This, in turn, has only enraged the Marxist commentariat even more, and in the 48 hours since the election the level of craziness has moved up a further notch. Politics is largely a tribal business, and few people are keen to join tribes whose representatives appear to be foul-mouthed, spittle-flecked, ranting psychopaths. In other words, having just lost one election, these Labour supporters have already started the groundwork towards losing the next – and if the Tories move to the left, with their complement of new MPs representing working-class communities, Labour could find itself out of power for a generation, no matter who replaces Corbyn. It's the working class in England who have moved to the right not the Tories moving to the left. You can thank Labour for that as they're a right wing party too. I mean what's one of the first things that dud Starmer does? Reappoints Ed Miliband!🤣
|
|