|
|
Post by andyloneshark on Aug 6, 2020 16:55:51 GMT
It's a bit of a long story, how there ended up being two versions of Sham out there at the same time... it does seem a bit daft
especially as one version has 3 original members... the other has none.
...and to answer your question, no i must admit, i don't know any songs by the 'other Sham'
A friend of mine told me recently that The Game is his favourite Album by the original band, so that made me go back and listen again.
There were some good singles around that time, but they weren't big hits.
This is a great album track IMO...
|
|
|
|
Sham 69
Aug 6, 2020 17:04:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by personunknown on Aug 6, 2020 17:04:30 GMT
The 'sham' Sham do play some of the original bands songs, how they got permission I don't know. They contacted me on Facebook some years back looking for gigs. Whoever it was I was in correspondence with got a bit shirty when I asked what original members were in the band. He went off on one, slagging Pursey off, calling him a fraud etc. Maybe, I replied, but you're still prepared to make money by playing his songs. I blocked him after that.
|
|
|
|
Post by zeopold on Aug 6, 2020 18:21:58 GMT
PS: Standing up to racists was something Sham were not very good at I was into Sham when they started out but when Pursey bottled out of the 2nd big RAR in town in order to placate his nazi bonehead fanbase many of us realised he was a contemptible fraud. |
|
|
|
Post by andyloneshark on Aug 6, 2020 19:06:18 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by zeopold on Aug 6, 2020 19:31:45 GMT
Pursey had his chance to do something for 'the kids' but he bottled it. Swings and roundabouts though... the unexpected payoff for the kids that day was The Fingers stepping up to the plate. One of the best shows I've seen  www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX7DwzA3V1E |
|
|
|
Post by andyloneshark on Aug 6, 2020 19:48:54 GMT
...well, like i say, others who were actually involved in the event saw it another way. You need to read the article.
Sham 69 may have been told/advised not to perform at the Carnival due to the death threats issued against him/them after Sham 69 did the Rock against Racism Gig at Central London poly with Misty in Roots a few days before.
I don't see that as 'Bottling it' ...i see that as common sense. Sham playing may have seen by the organisers of the event as a risk not worth taking for them, the other bands and the audience.
|
|
|
|
Post by zeopold on Aug 6, 2020 19:53:02 GMT
You need to read the article. I was at the show. |
|
|
|
Post by andyloneshark on Aug 6, 2020 20:13:56 GMT
You need to read the article. I was at the show. Were you organising it? |
|
|
|
Post by zeopold on Aug 6, 2020 20:17:36 GMT
No, I was just one of the kids. Most of us in the crowd transferred our allegiance from Sham to the Fingers that afternoon. It was a seismic moment, one of many back in the New Wave |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Emsworth on Aug 6, 2020 21:09:29 GMT
This seems to be the key section.... Is there any photograph from the series that stands out for you? Why?"This is an interesting question because I have been asked it a lot and end up giving different answers maybe depending on which way the wind is blowing. I think today its Jimmy Pursey, lead singer of Sham 69 at Carnival 2, Brockwell Park Brixton in 1978. "A few days before the Carnival Sham 69 did a Rock against Racism Gig at Central London poly with RAR favourites Misty in Roots and the gig was infiltrated by a racist gang. We had heard through the grapevine this might happen and the stage was protected by security from Southall courtesy of Misty in Roots. They were defeated and immediately issued death threats against Jimmy Percy. "Jimmy was persuaded that the threats were real which forced him and the band to withdraw from the Carnival and they were hastily replaced by Northern Ireland's brilliant Stiff Little Fingers. I was back stage at the event, re-loading my cameras with film, in the pause between Aswad and Elvis Costello's sets, when the big door at the back burst open and Jimmy Percy brushed past me and headed for the mic at the front of the stage. "He made a brave and impassioned speech condemning the racists and pledging his support for Rock Against Racism. He then turned round and for a fraction of a second looked at me with his stressed-out face, then he was gone. I hoped I had got the shot but this was long before the days of auto-focus and auto-exposure and it wasn't until I got in the darkroom late that night that I knew I had the shot. For me it was a decisive photographic moment, but also decisive anti-racist moment."  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Sham 69
Aug 6, 2020 21:24:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 21:24:43 GMT
Sham 69 were the 'Canary in the coal mine' in terms of what followed. No one would have ever even heard of the Cockney Rejects if Sham 69 hadn't existed. And Sham didn't have a 'Firm' of football hooligan mates to steam in, when violence kicked off at their gigs like the Rejects did. I don't claim to be a huge fan of Sham... just like some of their songs... like them way more of them than Cockney Rejects who seemed to revel in the aggro they inflamed. And the whole 'authenticity' thing is a can of worms you can point any SO many bands or band members. If Lydon and Malcolm McClaren hadn't enter the frame, would the rest of the Pistols have progressed beyond a few 60s covers, like "Build Me Up Buttercup"?  Likewise The Clash and Bernie Rhodes influence on them... etc ...etc According to the book 'Burning Britain' the Rejects regret all the football rivalry and hooligans turning up at their gigs as it took over from the music and they were, after all, a punk band. Sham didn't have a hooligan gang but they were ambiguous to say the least about their skinhead following who were mostly fascists. Political cowardice is never a good attribute. I've always thought Pursey was a bit of an imposter but having said that I'd go and see them now out of curiosity as I've never seen them before. |
|
|
|
Post by zeopold on Aug 6, 2020 21:30:59 GMT
I've always though Pursey was a bit of an imposter but having said that I'd go and see them now out of curiosity as I've never seen them before. Don't waste your money. I saw them at Southampton Top Rank back in 78. Menace opened for them and were the better group by a significant margin. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Sham 69
Aug 6, 2020 21:31:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 21:31:02 GMT
I saw Syd's exhibition when it was in Glasgow a few years back.An old mate of mine who was the RAR organiser in Paisley at the time donated a lot of his photo's. He was running Groucho Marxist records shortly after. As for Pursey,I can't ever recall him being a nazi or a racist but he was a political coward. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Sham 69
Aug 6, 2020 21:33:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 21:33:46 GMT
This seems to be the key section.... Is there any photograph from the series that stands out for you? Why?"This is an interesting question because I have been asked it a lot and end up giving different answers maybe depending on which way the wind is blowing. I think today its Jimmy Pursey, lead singer of Sham 69 at Carnival 2, Brockwell Park Brixton in 1978. "A few days before the Carnival Sham 69 did a Rock against Racism Gig at Central London poly with RAR favourites Misty in Roots and the gig was infiltrated by a racist gang. We had heard through the grapevine this might happen and the stage was protected by security from Southall courtesy of Misty in Roots. They were defeated and immediately issued death threats against Jimmy Percy. "Jimmy was persuaded that the threats were real which forced him and the band to withdraw from the Carnival and they were hastily replaced by Northern Ireland's brilliant Stiff Little Fingers. I was back stage at the event, re-loading my cameras with film, in the pause between Aswad and Elvis Costello's sets, when the big door at the back burst open and Jimmy Percy brushed past me and headed for the mic at the front of the stage. "He made a brave and impassioned speech condemning the racists and pledging his support for Rock Against Racism. He then turned round and for a fraction of a second looked at me with his stressed-out face, then he was gone. I hoped I had got the shot but this was long before the days of auto-focus and auto-exposure and it wasn't until I got in the darkroom late that night that I knew I had the shot. For me it was a decisive photographic moment, but also decisive anti-racist moment." They should have played as the fascists rule by fear. It would have been a huge statement. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Sham 69
Aug 6, 2020 21:37:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 21:37:38 GMT
I've always though Pursey was a bit of an imposter but having said that I'd go and see them now out of curiosity as I've never seen them before. Don't waste your money. I saw them at Southampton Top Rank back in 78. Menace opened for them and were the better group by a significant margin. I think they're just a group of old guys now so if they were at one of these big Scotland Calling gigs I'd have a look. Can't see it in the current Covid climate though. |
|
