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The Clash
Jun 30, 2021 15:06:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 15:06:23 GMT
True, especially the early ones👍
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Post by doug61 on Jun 30, 2021 15:10:10 GMT
I think it's about putting it into perspective. The Clash were an important band in the early days but to say that they should be revered for everything they released is just nonsense. You get that odd, almost surreal scenario displayed on here by people who listen to them, know it's shit and still praise it. And for what? Just because it's the Clash. Insane. Don't think that anyone thinks they should be revered, just that they don't deserve the over the top slaggings they tend to get. "You get that odd, almost surreal scenario displayed on here by people who listen to them, know it's shit and still praise it." Not sure you can claim to know what people really think just because you don't enjoy it yourself, personally I liked most of their output up to "Combat Rock" although filler was creeping in before that. People like what they like, i'm not much of a fan of "hardcore punk" but believe you are, if I said "you know it's shit but still praise it" wouldn't that be ridiculous and unfair? |
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Post by doug61 on Jun 30, 2021 15:16:32 GMT
One thing we can all agree about is that The Clash were never racists and were clear in their opposition to racism. You could maybe argue that they could have done more but its not like they did nothing. Cancelling an important series of concerts would have been crazy. It was probably just a bunch of vocal idiots so why should everyone in the crowd suffer and the band have to repay the promoter. If they'd cancelled the US shows they'd never have been booked again in America, The insurance loss to the backers would have been massive. The idea that a band in their position even has the "power" to cancel is naive, it would have no doubt bankrupted them as a going concern. |
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The Clash
Jun 30, 2021 16:29:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 16:29:04 GMT
While we're on the topic it's high time we had a pic of the boys hanging around the 'troubles' looking cool as f*** in their new wave clobber   Anyone with a bit of savvy would never stand next to a copper or a squaddie in 70's/80's Belfast.🤔 |
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The Clash
Jun 30, 2021 16:40:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 16:40:35 GMT
I think it's about putting it into perspective. The Clash were an important band in the early days but to say that they should be revered for everything they released is just nonsense. You get that odd, almost surreal scenario displayed on here by people who listen to them, know it's shit and still praise it. And for what? Just because it's the Clash. Insane. Don't think that anyone thinks they should be revered, just that they don't deserve the over the top slaggings they tend to get. "You get that odd, almost surreal scenario displayed on here by people who listen to them, know it's shit and still praise it." Not sure you can claim to know what people really think just because you don't enjoy it yourself, personally I liked most of their output up to "Combat Rock" although filler was creeping in before that. People like what they like, i'm not much of a fan of "hardcore punk" but believe you are, if I said "you know it's shit but still praise it" wouldn't that be ridiculous and unfair? I think most of Sandinista was 'filler' but it's hailed as a classic and revered now as some brilliant record. It wasn't. If someone listened to hardcore punk and didn't like it then that's up to them. Why would I expect them to like it? What I find silly is people not liking music when they haven't even heard it. Or even worse, waiting until someone else deciding that they like or don't like it. Crazy but that's what happens on here🤣 |
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The Clash
Jun 30, 2021 16:41:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 16:41:32 GMT
One thing we can all agree about is that The Clash were never racists and were clear in their opposition to racism. You could maybe argue that they could have done more but its not like they did nothing. Cancelling an important series of concerts would have been crazy. It was probably just a bunch of vocal idiots so why should everyone in the crowd suffer and the band have to repay the promoter. If they'd cancelled the US shows they'd never have been booked again in America, The insurance loss to the backers would have been massive. The idea that a band in their position even has the "power" to cancel is naive, it would have no doubt bankrupted them as a going concern. Maybe that wouldn't have been a bad thing creatively🤨 |
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The Clash
Jun 30, 2021 18:38:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 18:38:30 GMT
Didn't most of the Pistols audience declare it was noisey, badly played shite in the beginning? I saw Crass 7 or 8 times between 79 and 81. Unlike many of the original punk groups, they did not progress musically over time. I think thet definitely did. In fact some of it surpassed a lot of the early punk bands. I mean when the Pistols reformed in 96 some of the sound was utter pish given the resources. Mind you Rottens vocals ruined a lot of the songs with that awful shriek he does now. |
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Post by andyloneshark on Jun 30, 2021 18:39:20 GMT
i have just been getting a second opinion from someone i know, who knows way more than me about the American Hardcore scene of the early 80s and he said that there were bands were not consulted by Steven Blush over in the inclusion of his book and others say they never saw him at Hardcore shows in the tight knit New York Hardcore scene of that time, so there is a question mark from some that were, about some of the content of that particular book.
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The Clash
Jun 30, 2021 18:40:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 18:40:59 GMT
It's all relative to your own personal taste. Didn't most of the Pistols audience declare it was noisey, badly played shite in the beginning? A lot of so called journalists thought it was as did all of Joy Division! Taste is all relative but I suspect most objective listeners or any musicologist would describe the Crass sound as pretty rudimentary Then again the point wasn't the music but the message Rudimentary compared to what? I thought some if it was quite intricate. What have you heard? |
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The Clash
Jun 30, 2021 18:44:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 18:44:53 GMT
As to the comment on Crass and their ideas being naive I formed that opinion with regard to their 'Anarchy & Peace' tagline at their aborted Stonehenge 1980 show. That was anarchy, all right... and anything but peaceful. To be fair, their hearts were in the right place, though. Although I'm a peaceful person I was never a pacifist. Crass were genuine in what they believed. A lot of bands used politics just to make money. They still do. |
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Jun 30, 2021 18:53:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 18:53:09 GMT
It's possible however do you think he's making it all up.
A lot of the bands were interviewed.
Can your friend say for certain that the interviews were false?
In the book Blush never claims he went to all the New York hardcore shows but he went to GBGB's etc and saw the Ramones early doors.
To be honest I don't really know that much about him Andy.
What he DOES claim is that he saw the Bad Brains racially abused and pelted with beer cans by Clash fans when BB supported them.
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The Clash
Jun 30, 2021 19:20:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 19:20:05 GMT
Just doing a wee bit of research.
It seems that Steven Blush went GBGB's at the beginning of the NY punk scene.
He also seems well quoted in the New York music scene as'someone who was there'.
To what degree I don't know.
The question people have to ask themselves is this-why would he lie about that incident at the Clash gig?
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 30, 2021 19:49:35 GMT
What he DOES claim is that he saw the Bad Brains racially abused and pelted with beer cans by Clash fans when BB supported them. Darryl Jenifer (bassist, Bad Brains):
Out of my whole 40 years in Bad Brains, I probably faced racism or heard the word "n-----" maybe a handful of times.
Back in the ’80s, we were playing a show in Oklahoma. The little punk-rock kid came up and said, “I love your band, but my boyfriend and his friends are Nazis, they’re going to come down and kick y’all’s ass.”
But they never came. That seemed to happen with the Bad Brains.
No one came up with us in that "n-----" shit. I’m thinking we’re unique in that. I’d be all around white culture, and it’s just something that didn’t ring to me. And I jumped off tour buses and ran into the Klan’s gas stations.
www.gq.com/story/punks-and-nazis-oral-history
I would have expected Darryl to mention the time he was racially abused and pelted with beer cans during that Clash support slot - unless... |
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Jun 30, 2021 20:24:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 20:24:24 GMT
So because he DIDN'T mention it it didn't happen?🤔
Can you prove that Blush never saw that incident?
That's clutching at straws.
Again, why would he lie about it?🤔
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jun 30, 2021 20:48:27 GMT
No idea rogue. Lots of potential reasons but it's pointless to speculate.
I thought it was worth posting though. Darryl was there after all and yet, when asked about racism, he doesn't mention what Blush reports as a serious incident. Let's face it we'll never know, but it certainly gives pause for thought. Most people would mention being pelted with beer cans whilst a crowd racially abused them in reply to a question about their experience of racism.
Maybe it happened. Maybe it didn't. I've looked around online for any evidence of this incident but did not find anything.
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