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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 10, 2023 9:13:57 GMT
His first book is definitely more authentic. His hostility towards the Irish is definitely there in that horrible other book. Will try and dig it out if I can find it but it's possible it went to the charity shop. I think the main interview in this was done around the same time as Anger Is An Energy - it's quite an interesting vid although padded out but addresses the issues we're discussing head on As you say, he felt rejected when he returned to Ireland as a kid every Summer. One grandfather wouldn't talk to him. He was also arrested in Dublin in the 70s for the crime of being an English troublemaker - seems his Irish family turned out en masse to explain he wasn't English and the charges were chucked out by the court Some academics pop up and say how second gen Irish living in England often feel rejected by both cultures Anyway worth a watch if you can be bothered... In this snapshot of these somewhat turbulent times, the man himself recounts his early childhood with his Irish parents and how the fusion of his Irish and English backgrounds shaped his personalityJohnny Rotten - Second Generation Irish Punk |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 9:32:21 GMT
Some of that runs contrary to his book. Like I said, he's a bit of a Walter Mitty character.
Personally, I 've never had any hostility to my accent in Ireland and I've been all over the place from Malinhead to Mizenhead!
Quite the opposite in fact whereby the Irish have been warm and welcoming to Scottish people. I think Lydon is has a weaker personality than he thinks he has.
The links between Donegal and Derry are really strong as the 'pink' ships from Lough Foyle contained 10's of thousands of people going to industrial Clydeside whereby they were met by hostility and bigotry by a lot of native Scots.
This obviously produced a steeliness which I think Lydon lacks. He definitely suffers from a cultural/ethic identity crisis.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 10, 2023 10:11:51 GMT
You may be right
However many childhood experiences have a profound experience and leave their scars into adulthood. I can well imagine how being rejected by close family relatives because you have a different accent and live in a different country would be difficult to cope with and would have a lifelong impact.
To say Lydon is a weak personality sounds wide of the mark. He was walking round London with a massive target on his back around 77-78. Just dressing like he did back then took a lot of character. I experienced a lot of hostility just for wearing straight jeans and having short hair in 77. I can only imagine what he went though with dyed hair and a far more extreme look. They were very violent times and London in the 70s was a very violent place. It took real guts to do what he did - a steeliness as you put it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 10:18:07 GMT
Someone taking the piss out of the accent scarred him for life?
Thats quite funny. Poor lamb. I wouldn't believe a word he says. I reckon he embellishes a lot of his experiences in hindsight.
Lots of youth get attacked for what they wear and probably always will unfortunately.
Try being a punk in a large Glasgow scheme with the young teams.
He wouldn't last two minutes.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 10, 2023 11:14:08 GMT
I was referring to the rejection by his grandfather (and other Irish family members) who wouldn't talk to him
I'm sure it was the same in all big cities in 77 - being different was a provocation and plenty of people responded by giving you a hiding. Rotten did all that but was high profile after Grundy and God Save The Queen. He had no minder or anything - just fending for himself
I agree that he can't be trusted but no doubting his courage in 77-78 - or his steeliness as you put it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 12:37:25 GMT
I've no problem with the Johnny Rotten of 76-79.
He was well ahead of the game with the first two PIL albums too.
However, being a punk was an occupational hazard and should be seen as such. Being trapped in a scheme with thousands of feral youth and gang members that needed no excuse was no fun believe me.
Lydon has become more progressive and reactionary and 'Johnny Rotten ' is well gone. There are no excuses for it. Look at Matlock and Cook.
Decent, affable working class people with no malice towards anyone.
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 10, 2023 13:31:03 GMT
We agree that Lydon in 2023 is a very different person to his younger self
He's more embarrassment than anything these days, though still capable of the odd insight in with the bullshit
No wonder the other three are estranged from him now
We seem to have got off the point a bit though, which started with the Plastic Paddy debate - which is an interesting discussion. Another reminder of how difficult it is for new arrivals, and especially their children, to feel a sense of identity and belonging. I can understand why Lydon is ambivalent about Ireland, given that early rejection, and despite being told in England that he's Irish. Seems as though the older Lydon sees himself as the best of both cultures, but I suppose he would wouldn't he?
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Post by andyloneshark on Jan 10, 2023 19:51:13 GMT
There's an article in the Telegraph that states that PiL qualify for an Irish Eurovision entry as John Lydons parents were both born in Ireland. But that seems a little tenuous... after all PiL is meant to be a 'band' not a solo act ...i thought  How about Lu and Bruce? I do quite like the song though |
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 12, 2023 14:59:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 15:26:57 GMT
Lydon = tosspot. The end.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 12:36:32 GMT
Just had a wee look again at 'Anger is an Energy'(which I found in my book cupboard)and I wouldn't really believe a word of it.
The incident in Dublin seems like a half truth to me. Reading between the lines, it looks as if the gobby cunt has been mouthing off to 'one of the locals' and there's been some handbags.
Unfortunately for the King of Punk, one of the 'locals' is an off duty Guard who proceeds to get him nicked then he's given a couple of slaps down the station.
He claims that the Irish are snobs and are 'worse than Britain's class system'. That really is news to me in the 50 years I've been going to Ireland.
He also moans about the getting incarcerated in Mountjoy 'prison' which is full of IRA and UDA terrorists and other psychopaths'
As anyone with a rudimentary grasp of Irish history will tell you, the UDA were never incarcerated in Mountjoy Jail as it's a different political jurisdiction.
Total Walter Mitty nonsense. At that point, I just put it down as he's obviously got serious mental health problems and needs sectioned.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 12:42:58 GMT
We agree that Lydon in 2023 is a very different person to his younger self He's more embarrassment than anything these days, though still capable of the odd insight in with the bullshit No wonder the other three are estranged from him now We seem to have got off the point a bit though, which started with the Plastic Paddy debate - which is an interesting discussion. Another reminder of how difficult it is for new arrivals, and especially their children, to feel a sense of identity and belonging. I can understand why Lydon is ambivalent about Ireland, given that early rejection, and despite being told in England that he's Irish. Seems as though the older Lydon sees himself as the best of both cultures, but I suppose he would wouldn't he? Seems like a bit of cowardice to me. Try being Irish in Glasgow where there's open hostility. Up until 20 years ago the Tri-colour was seen as a 'terrorist' flag by thousands of bigots. There are still 10's of thousands of bigots here who are openly hostile to visible signs of Irishness. His parents seemed like nice people, just a pity he doesn't have the dignity they seemed to have had.🤔 |
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Post by stu77 on Jan 14, 2023 22:12:22 GMT
Just discovered that my personally signed copy of Anger Is An Energy which I had in the back yard in a plastic container I thought was secure is totally destroyed by rain. As is my Joy Division box set signed by the surviving three.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2023 1:02:59 GMT
^Terrible day. Weather-wise.
The Joy Division one maybe but generally I'm against autographs, a ridiculous concept.
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Post by stu77 on Jan 15, 2023 3:54:02 GMT
^^^^^I hadn't even read more than about 20 pages of it.
When I read it I always hear his bloody dogmatic voice. He should get Julian Clary or Alan Carr to narrate his books.
I think my Marky Ramone signed drumsticks are also ruined.
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